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Nostalgia & History > Train Order Hoop Info Question


Date: 12/23/11 04:39
Train Order Hoop Info Question
Author: imrl

I was wondering if anyone out there has any detailed photos on how train orders were tied into the "V" style train order hoops. I would like to try to recreate one that would be operational but don't have any idea how they were actually tied to the hoop. Thanks!



Date: 12/23/11 05:48
Re: Train Order Hoop Info Question
Author: CCDeWeese

Using the cut-to-length string (we had two nails in the wall that created the correct length and wrapped string around them and cut once so that the cut strings are about six inches longer than the hoop Y), tie two single slip knots so that a pocket is created to put the orders or messages in. Put the resulting loop into the Y hoop so that the string is under the clip at the base of the Y with the string on the side of the hoop facing the oncoming train (if the clip where the string is held is in the away side, there is a good chance that the clip will cut the string when the orders are taken).

Hooping up waybills was a little trickier, for a large number of waybills we tried a couple of ways, tying the bills around the string in the open part of the Y, thinking that would put the trainman's arm against the bills, and putting them parallel to one of the legs of Y. I do not recall which worked best.



Date: 12/23/11 05:59
Re: Train Order Hoop Info Question
Author: CharlesVarnes

To the best of my memory the ends of the string were tied to each to the opposite string with slip knots. That created a "loop" or "pocket" where the folded order forms could be securely placed when the string end were pulled tight.

You now have a circle of string with the train orders securely fastened.

When the string was placed in the order fork the "pocket" was placed between the end of the fork and then the bottom of the loop was placed in a spring clip at the bottom of the "V."

When the crew member catches the orders, the string pops out of the order fork.

OCV



Date: 12/23/11 11:18
Re: Train Order Hoop Info Question
Author: Rathole

I've seen things like twigs sticking out of pulpwood and even parts of a plug door boxcar "grab" the orders out of the rack ahead of the caboose. I stopped several trains over the years so I could retrieve the orders for the conductor.



Date: 12/23/11 14:43
Re: Train Order Hoop Info Question
Author: OliveHeights

CCDeWeese Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Using the cut-to-length string (we had two nails
> in the wall that created the correct length and
> wrapped string around them and cut once so that
> the cut strings are about six inches longer than
> the hoop Y),

At Fullerton, Ca. I guess they didn't want to damage the plaster in the historic depot, so we had a plywood board with the nails in it to wrap the string around and then cut it with a box cutter. One day one of the lady operators had the board sitting on her lap while she was cutting the string. Sure enough, her hand slipped and she took a good slice out of her thigh with the box cutter and blood was flowing freely. Of course, some of the switch crewman wanted to help her get her pants off and apply direct pressure to the wound.



Date: 12/23/11 15:13
Re: Train Order Hoop Info Question
Author: SCKP187

Greg, nothing more than a spring clip at the bottom of the wye and the dowels are notched at the top much like an arrow would fit into a bow string. This one I have is Frisco from Arcadia Ks---oooops, I grabbed the entire hoop, and another one too! I need to put a new set of Form 9 and new string on these, but you can get the jest of it. Thanks for asking. Hope this helps.
Brian Stevens








Date: 12/23/11 17:46
Re: Train Order Hoop Info Question
Author: CCDeWeese

Good picture, captures the whole thing.



Date: 12/23/11 17:58
Re: Train Order Hoop Info Question
Author: imrl

Thanks, guys! That makes more sense now that I see that the only thing tied is the order and the rest of it is secured in the spring clip. That's kind of where I was confused at. The picture is exactly what I was hoping for! Thanks for everyone's help!



Date: 12/23/11 22:55
Re: Train Order Hoop Info Question
Author: DNRY122

And that train-order twine was useful for all sorts of secondary applications--I used to find the a loudspeaker for the locomotive radio lashed in place with order twine after the base broke.



Date: 12/24/11 10:47
Re: Train Order Hoop Info Question
Author: rob_l

We never used ugly twine like that on the UP. We used a high-quality string. And that delivery fork is mighty crude as well. Ours were a lot better than that.

Best regards,

Rob L.



Date: 12/27/11 19:08
Re: Train Order Hoop Info Question
Author: upkpfan

Greg,
These are fresh out of the camera and taken just a few minutes ago. upkpfan
#1 is the whole top part.
#2 is of the order.
#3 is a close up of the knot detail of this UP Y order stick



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/27/11 19:13 by upkpfan.








Date: 12/27/11 19:12
Re: Train Order Hoop Info Question
Author: upkpfan

Now this is a little different. This is a lot older order stick. Came out of the UP Vesper, KS Depot. I found 3 up above the ceiling. upkpfan

#1 Total height of stick is about 5'
#2 Close up of how order is attached to stick






Date: 12/28/11 15:16
Re: Train Order Hoop Info Question
Author: lwilton

So how does this old guy work? You catch the whole stick, pull the orders, and toss the stick back by the wayside as quick as you can?



Date: 12/28/11 15:22
Re: Train Order Hoop Info Question
Author: mundo

It was common when the true circle order hoop was used, they would be dropped along the R/W and the section gangs would pick them up for return to the stations.



Date: 12/28/11 15:38
Re: Train Order Hoop Info Question
Author: upkpfan

lwilton,
Yep, that is right. Pulls the orders and tosses it back to the ground and hope the agent don't have to go to far to pick it up. upkpfan



Date: 12/28/11 16:51
Re: Train Order Hoop Info Question
Author: LarryDoyle

upkpfan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> lwilton,
> Yep, that is right. Pulls the orders and tosses it
> back to the ground and hope the agent don't have
> to go to far to pick it up. upkpfan


Agents used to throw their three wheel handcar on the track to follow the train and pick up the hoop.

Some trained their pet dogs to pick 'em up and "fetch".

Mean conductors, who sometime earlier in their wretched lives had a bad expeience with a dog and thus hated all canines, would catch their orders, unwrap 'em, read 'em, go inside for coffee, ponder the situation (over which he really had no control), and finally throw off the hoop.

A good dog would still fetch! God bless 'em. (Remember, dog is God spelled backwards).

-Larry Doyle



Date: 12/28/11 17:40
Re: Train Order Hoop Info Question
Author: wabash2800

Reference the Y shaped hoop. Wasn't there something where if the operator did it wrong that the string would not come off, perhaps pulling the trainman out of the cab?



Date: 12/28/11 19:30
Re: Train Order Hoop Info Question
Author: ACR_Ted

If and when they did that to me, I'd just leave the hoops there until I happened to be walking that way. I had lots of extras stashed in the station, and when I ran low I'd just order more from the Stores Dept.!

Ted

(former Algoma Central Agent-Operator)

>
> Mean conductors, who sometime earlier in their
> wretched lives had a bad expeience with a dog and
> thus hated all canines, would catch their orders,
> unwrap 'em, read 'em, go inside for coffee, ponder
> the situation (over which he really had no
> control), and finally throw off the hoop.
>
> A good dog would still fetch! God bless 'em.
> (Remember, dog is God spelled backwards).
>
> -Larry Doyle



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