Nostalgia & History > CB&Q odd passenger stuff

Yes, the Zephyrs were magificent but I photographed some oddities which I did not understand then nor do I know what they are now. All three of these cars must have been used on branches.
1. 9735
2. 9705
3. 9767

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Those are some great nostalgia.

Sharon Evans
Glen Allen, VA

4. passenger car in Galesburg, IL 7-66 #7153?
5. RPO combine in Denver in 6-69 3664?

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Here are two slides I traded for over 30 years ago. I don't remember who took the photographs or the location. Thanks for your help.
6. An E-5 with a UP car plus older heavyweight rebuilt cars, plus one of the original domes
7. Perhaps the Texas Zephyr at ?

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The E5 with the dome car in the consist is in St. Louis, MO at the Carr St. freight station looking like it's ready to leave for Hannibal or some point north with an excursion of some sort. The 4960 used to leave from here also.

MEKoch Wrote:
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> Yes, the Zephyrs were magificent but I
> photographed some oddities which I did not
> understand then nor do I know what they are now.
> All three of these cars must have been used on
> branches.
> 1. 9735
> 2. 9705
> 3. 9767


The 9735 was aquired by the Minnesota Transportaion Museum in 1984 for possible restoration.

-LD

The second E5 shot is Colorado Springs,CO.
What were the selfpropelled cars called? We have one sitting in Denver.

Posted from Android

SD45X Wrote:
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> The second E5 shot is Colorado Springs,CO.
> What were the selfpropelled cars called? We have
> one sitting in Denver.
>
> Posted from Android

A "Doodlebug".

Traingeek087

CBQ 9767 "doodlebug" on Lincoln-St.Joe train(I believe). Note that the coach is the Q's Pendulum car. wag216

The last shot of the E-5a and b, is C&S train #28 at Trinidad, Colorado. wag216

The first three cars were built as Gas Electrics. The 3684 is a trailer car for a gas electric. I would presume that if these doodlebugs lasted a while, they were re-engined, perhaps with diesel prime movers.

wag216 Wrote:
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> The last shot of the E-5a and b, is C&S train #28
> at Trinidad, Colorado. wag216


I think this is Texas Zephyr, Train No 2. at the AT&SF depot in Colorado Springs.

Bob

Trinidad C&S Depot, looking same direction. Yard gone but there are no mountains behind it

And the 9817 sitting in Denver last week.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/18/12 23:35 by SD45X.

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MEKoch Wrote:

> 1. 9735

From Doodlebug Country, this was a 65-foot EMC car built in 1929 with a 400hp Model 148 distillate engine and a body by Pullman. Its original number was 735, and the detailed motorcar roster on the Burlington Route Historical Society's site says it had dual controls, which were removed some time before 1953.

http://www.burlingtonroute.com/docs/rosters/BRHS_Motor_cars.xls

The car was dieselized in 1949 with a Hamilton 685A. It was CB&Q's last active doodlebug, retired in 1967 and sold to Southern Industrial in 1969. It then went to the Keweenaw Central tourist railroad in Michigan in 1971, and eventually to the Minnesota Transportation Museum in 1984. More on the car is here:

http://www.mtmuseum.org/jsr/roster/cbq9735.php

> 2. 9705

Hmmm...Keilty's book doesn't show CB&Q having a motorcar with this number, and neither does the Burlington Route Historical Society's roster (a shorter version is available as a web page here):

http://www.burlingtonroute.com/docs/rosters/motorcars.html

It looks like another dieselized EMC car, however.

> 3. 9767

This was another Model 148 EMC car built in 1930, but with a 75-foot Pullman body. It also eventually got a Hamilton diesel and was retired in 1961. This photo is also on-line here, and the poster says it was taken at St. Joseph, MO in 1958:

http://abpr.railfan.net/abprphoto.cgi?may99/05-10-99/cbq9767atstjosephmofeb58tg.jpg

The caption to a different photo of the car in more typical Pullman Green on rrpicturearchives.net quotes some text about the car (typos theirs):

The following is from the book, "Burlington In Transition", by Bernard Crbin and Joseph Hardy: "Like all self propelled cars, the 9767 had a varied an interesting career, though perhaps more distinguished than most. In her late years, she was painted a distinctive silver gray and pulled one of the finest riding cars on the system, the Silver Pendulum, between Saint Joseph, Missouri, and Brookfield, where the train connected with the Kansas City Zephyr. When this passenger train was discontinued both the 9767 and the Silver Pendulum wore move to Lincoln, Nebraska to become the Lincoln - Saint Joseph via Wymore Local passenger. Motor failure due to a broken connecting rod did severe damage to the diesel motor and the 9767 was taken out of service in December 1961. The PMC body was set on the ground at Beardstown, Illinois to seve as an engineman's locker room.

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1150813

> 5. RPO combine in Denver in 6-69 3664?

This car started life as another self-propelled EMC doodlebug. Built in 1928 as the 629 with a 275hp Model 120 distillate engine and a 65' Pullman body, it was later renumbered 9629 and then 9817. It was demotored and converted to trailer 3664 in 1951. As with 9767, the body was eventually separated from the trucks and placed on the ground, in this case to serve as an engineman's office in Denver. It was "rescued" in the early 90's and put back on trucks, as SD45X's photo shows.

What were these self-propelled passenger/baggage/RPO/motor cars called? Old ads from Brill on jmw's site use a variety of names - "rail cars," "self-propelled cars," "gasoline cars" for the ones with mechanical transmissions and "gas-electric cars" for the ones with traction motors, etc.

http://waidephoto.smugmug.com/Trains/Waide-Collection-of-Vintage/21901032_GcvgtF#!i=1091758636&k=H7Lcs&lb=1&s=X3
http://waidephoto.smugmug.com/Trains/Waide-Collection-of-Vintage/21901032_GcvgtF#!i=1091758104&k=aiQGB&lb=1&s=X3
http://waidephoto.smugmug.com/Trains/Waide-Collection-of-Vintage/21901032_GcvgtF#!i=1091758999&k=2j5wD&lb=1&s=X3
http://waidephoto.smugmug.com/Trains/Waide-Collection-of-Vintage/21901032_GcvgtF#!i=1091758507&k=h8naD&lb=1&s=X3
http://waidephoto.smugmug.com/Trains/Waide-Collection-of-Vintage/21901032_GcvgtF#!i=1708314390&k=kBCCZf5&lb=1&s=X3
http://waidephoto.smugmug.com/Trains/Waide-Collection-of-Vintage/21901032_GcvgtF#!i=1091758888&k=iJKDF&lb=1&s=X3
http://waidephoto.smugmug.com/Trains/Waide-Collection-of-Vintage/21901032_GcvgtF#!i=1091758861&k=8y5ru&lb=1&s=X3
http://waidephoto.smugmug.com/Trains/Waide-Collection-of-Vintage/21901032_GcvgtF#!i=1091758859&k=Jc8Dz&lb=1&s=X3
http://waidephoto.smugmug.com/Trains/Waide-Collection-of-Vintage/21901032_GcvgtF#!i=1091759059&k=BJTo8&lb=1&s=X3
http://waidephoto.smugmug.com/Trains/Waide-Collection-of-Vintage/21901032_GcvgtF#!i=1110288623&k=mgmfG&lb=1&s=X3
http://waidephoto.smugmug.com/Trains/Waide-Collection-of-Vintage/21901032_GcvgtF#!i=1091696151&k=s2Pzj&lb=1&s=X3

EMC and Pullman tended to call them "motor cars" or "rail motor cars:"

http://waidephoto.smugmug.com/Trains/Waide-Collection-of-Vintage/21901032_GcvgtF#!i=1090596263&k=67gWo&lb=1&s=X3
http://waidephoto.smugmug.com/Trains/Waide-Collection-of-Vintage/21901032_GcvgtF#!i=1093352997&k=CzWYT&lb=1&s=X3
http://waidephoto.smugmug.com/Trains/Waide-Collection-of-Vintage/21901032_GcvgtF#!i=1550038479&k=bBqwS6C&lb=1&s=X3

Although this ad appears reluctant to choose a definite name, starting with the cumbersome "Gas-electric Motive Power" before switching to the legal-ese "Equipment."

http://waidephoto.smugmug.com/Trains/Waide-Collection-of-Vintage/21901032_GcvgtF#!i=1108878579&k=BDfZb&lb=1&s=X3

See also:

http://waidephoto.smugmug.com/Trains/Waide-Collection-of-Vintage/21901032_GcvgtF#!i=1093489431&k=VsLCX&lb=1&s=X3
http://waidephoto.smugmug.com/Trains/Waide-Collection-of-Vintage/21901032_GcvgtF#!i=1688733118&k=fKkQxsB&lb=1&s=X3
http://waidephoto.smugmug.com/Trains/Waide-Collection-of-Vintage/21901032_GcvgtF#!i=1107812689&k=titW4&lb=1&s=X3
http://waidephoto.smugmug.com/Trains/Waide-Collection-of-Vintage/21901032_GcvgtF#!i=1138349932&k=y4dJ3&lb=1&s=X3
http://waidephoto.smugmug.com/Trains/Waide-Collection-of-Vintage/21901032_GcvgtF#!i=1093408369&k=v4TMk&lb=1&s=X3
http://waidephoto.smugmug.com/Trains/Waide-Collection-of-Vintage/21901032_GcvgtF#!i=1107816649&k=PbKcz&lb=1&s=X3
http://waidephoto.smugmug.com/Trains/Waide-Collection-of-Vintage/21901032_GcvgtF#!i=1107816921&k=J7W2z&lb=1&s=X3
http://waidephoto.smugmug.com/Trains/Waide-Collection-of-Vintage/21901032_GcvgtF#!i=1598764307&k=NBTkLrZ&lb=1&s=X3
http://waidephoto.smugmug.com/Trains/Waide-Collection-of-Vintage/21901032_GcvgtF#!i=1458549623&k=jPMR3TW&lb=1&s=X3


Railroads also tended to use names like "motor car" or "passenger motor car," which I believe was what Burlington called them (abbreviated PMC). Of course, "motor car" is also a common name for a maintenance of way speeder (Fairmont and others), so for railfans, the moniker "doodlebug" is less ambiguous. I'm sure many more nicknames, printable and otherwise, once existed - lingering examples include California Western's "skunk" trains and the RGS "galloping geese."

MEKoch Wrote:

> 4. passenger car in Galesburg, IL 7-66 #7153?

This should be a heavyweight suburban coach, the kind that CB&Q used in Chicago - Aurora, IL suburban service until replaced by the stainless steel gallery cars Metra is still using. Some photos of them in service are here:

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1867792
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1890264
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1890264

note to self-- what in the world was I thinking about? Of course that is C&S #21 at the Springs. wag216 (I am slow, but I am old)

You are absolutely right about the Silver Pendulum and the service it was assigned to between St. Joe & Lincoln at that time in fact that was the last regular assignment for the car. I was fortunate to have ridden all three of the Pendulum cars on the Great Northern between Seattle and Vancouver BC and the Santa Fe Pendulum car when it was operated in San Diegan service.