Nostalgia & History > N&W 1982

This may be at Clare yard in Cincinnati, but it could be anywhere. If you know, say so. I'm not a N&W expert, but I've only seen the white striped one once.

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milfordgap Wrote:
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> This may be at Clare yard in Cincinnati, but it
> could be anywhere. If you know, say so. I'm not a
> N&W expert, but I've only seen the white striped
> one once.


this is first time i ever saw the unit ... nice photo

IIRC only two units got that style of paint. A good visibility scheme, but hard to maintain around coal dust and road grime

N&W's attempt to set the NS merger scheme. It did not go over too well. I seem to remember the units being referred to as "skunks".

There were three N&W EMD GP38AC units that received the "skunk" scheme. Units 4104, 4107 and 4129 were painted in that scheme in December 1981.


Chris Toth
NSDash9.com

I always thought that scheme looked like a Southern Rwy "tuxedo" unit with its belt pulled up too high.

I also thought NW adding the white band to match SR in NS paralleled Family Lines becoming Seaboard System to mate up with Chessie System in CSX.

Jay

I was a foreman at the Roanoke "East End" Diesel Shop at the time the striped GP38AC's were done. They were painted specially for a train that operated from Richmond to Roanoke for the Virginia governor as part of a function at the Hotel Roanoke in January 1982. GP38AC's were chosen as they happened to be coming through Roanoke Shops for their #2 Overhauls, which rated a repaint and would be the "freshest" units on the system. Also, a consideration for using the GP38AC's would be that they would have to operate over the Southern's line to Richmond from Burkeville, and there may have been some trackage that the special would take that was restricted to only 4-axle power, if not the whole district, at that time. The red-painted SD40-2 6175 and C30-7 8010 and 8076-8080 were not considered for the train, which was composed of N&W business cars. In addition to the 4129, the 4104 and 4107 were the only other units painted in this scheme, and all three were used on the special train (see Pages 73 and 213 of Withers and Bowers "N&W Second Generation Diesels" book, Withers Publishing, 1989), perhaps the only time all three were together. The numbers chosen were random as that was the way they were coming through the shop for overhaul. One more point, the scheme was just for the special train and definitely was not an early experimental "NS" scheme. By the way, we referred to them as "Skunks" as well.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/22/12 18:39 by blindhog.

blindhog Wrote:
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> I was a foreman at the Roanoke "East End" Diesel
> Shop at the time the striped GP38AC's were done.
> They were painted specially for a train that
> operated from Richmond to Roanoke for the Virginia
> governor as part of a function at the Hotel
> Roanoke in January 1982. GP38AC's were chosen as
> they happened to be coming through Roanoke Shops
> for their #2 Overhauls, which rated a repaint and
> would be the "freshest" units on the system.
> Also, a consideration for using the GP38AC's would
> be that they would have to operate over the
> Southern's line to Richmond from Burkeville, and
> there may have been some trackage that the special
> would take that was restricted to only 4-axle
> power, if not the whole district, at that time.
> The red-painted SD40-2 6175 and C30-7 8010 and
> 8076-8080 were not considered for the train, which
> was composed of N&W business cars. In addition to
> the 4129, the 4104 and 4107 were the only other
> units painted in this scheme, and all three were
> used on the special train (see Pages 73 and 213 of
> Withers and Bowers "N&W Second Generation Diesels"
> book, Withers Publishing, 1989), perhaps the only
> time all three were together. The numbers chosen
> were random as that was the way they were coming
> through the shop for overhaul. One more point,
> the scheme was just for the special train and
> definitely was not an early experimental "NS"
> scheme. By the way, we referred to them as
> "Skunks" as well.

Thank you for all the information. There was way more to this engine than I thought.

milfordgap - Glad to help with the background info on the 4129. I've been enjoying your vintage photo posts.

blindhog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ... One more point,
> the scheme was just for the special train and
> definitely was not an early experimental "NS"
> scheme. By the way, we referred to them as
> "Skunks" as well.

That's interesting. I was working in GOB-S at the time, and I seem to remember some people high up in the Transportation Department were a bit giddy at the time about the scheme like they had pulled something off. Just prior to the NS merger, there was a lot of competition and one-upmanship between management people on the N&W and the Southern Railway. I'd be curious if approval for the skunk scheme on the three units went all of the way to the top, or whether it was conceived just within the Operating Department.

ts1457 - I have no idea whose idea the scheme was. The Locomotive Design Office in the Locomotive Dept., Motive Power Building, drew it up for the paint shop. This was at about the time that Robert Claytor became president, and I assumed it was his idea. It was also at about this time that we started painting overhauled units with the "NORFOLK AND WESTERN", instead of the big "NW" on the sides in the same style as the "Skunks," and I always felt it was Claytor's way of transitioning away from the Fishwick years, though, Fishwick's "NW" remained on the ends. Most of these units were SD40-2's, but anything repainted once it started, as well as new units like the 8506-8530 C36-7's and the Roanoke-built slugs, got this scheme. One more bit of trivia: the almost-new C30-7 8072 was severely damaged in a wreck and spent the better part of a year in the Boiler Shop getting rebuilt. It emerged from the paint shop with the "Claytor" scheme lettering in white on one side and end, but in gold on the opposite side and end. The gold lettering was rejected, but stayed on this unit, with the gold fading out fairly quickly. I don't remember which side and end got the gold lettering.

blindhog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ts1457 - I have no idea whose idea the scheme was.
> The Locomotive Design Office in the Locomotive
> Dept., Motive Power Building, drew it up for the
> paint shop. This was at about the time that
> Robert Claytor became president, and I assumed it
> was his idea. It was also at about this time that
> we started painting overhauled units with the
> "NORFOLK AND WESTERN", instead of the big "NW" on
> the sides in the same style as the "Skunks," and I
> always felt it was Claytor's way of transitioning
> away from the Fishwick years, though, Fishwick's
> "NW" remained on the ends. Most of these units
> were SD40-2's, but anything repainted once it
> started, as well as new units like the 8506-8530
> C36-7's and the Roanoke-built slugs, got this
> scheme.

Thanks, Blindhog. You are bringing back memories. I think you are right about Claytor and Fishwick. Claytor hated Fishwick's "NW" image. Maybe Claytor did want to jazz up the locomotives for the special train with the skunk scheme, but I have a hard time accepting that. By then, I would guess that Claytor was involved with developing the "Thoroughbred" image and wouldn't want to confuse the issue with the skunks. The bigger puzzle to me is that the skunk scheme was a simplification and adaptation of the classy Southern Railway scheme, taking out the gold and moving the white (imitation aluminum) band up. Can you imagine the ribbing that Graham would have given Robert over the skunk scheme? Anyhow, it would be interesting to know whose idea it was, but that probably is lost to history.

As for the Claytor "Norfolk and Western" scheme going on anything that got repainted, for some reason I particularly remember ex-ITC GP40-2, N&W 4161 getting the repaint. I have to admit that I saw the "NW" question the same way that Claytor did.

> One more bit of trivia: the almost-new
> C30-7 8072 was severely damaged in a wreck and
> spent the better part of a year in the Boiler Shop
> getting rebuilt. It emerged from the paint shop
> with the "Claytor" scheme lettering in white on
> one side and end, but in gold on the opposite side
> and end. The gold lettering was rejected, but
> stayed on this unit, with the gold fading out
> fairly quickly. I don't remember which side and
> end got the gold lettering.

Was that just a test to see whether white or gold lettering looked the best? Was the lettering painted on, or was it appliques?

ts1457 - I'm not aware if anyone at the "shops" knew the complete story behind the Skunk scheme. We first thought it was Southern merger related, but we quickly found out that there were going to be only three such units and that they were specifically for the special train. These units were painted around December 1981, and we went well past the June 1982 merger date and into mid-1983, I believe, before the NS "Thoroughbred" scheme was introduced, with the N&W and Southern sides of the company continuing their schemes until then. As for the experimental scheme on the 8072, the lettering was painted on, as was all our paint jobs by then, even on new units. We had quit using Scotchlite long before then; remember, the N&W was very conservative (some might say "cheap"), and we went the least expensive route on our paint jobs. I don't recall the date the 8072 was released from the shop, but I believe it would have been very early in 1982. This would have been just before that scheme was made our "standard" until the NS scheme's introduction, and might explain why the gold was tried, for whoever (Claytor?) to make the decision before it was rolled out for all units. The Illinois Terminal units were being worked through the shops during this time frame, with the early visitors to the shop in 1981 (mainly the SD39's) getting "NW" patch jobs on the green, and the green we used to cover the Illinois Terminal markings didn't match.

blindhog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ts1457 - I'm not aware if anyone at the "shops"
> knew the complete story behind the Skunk scheme.
> We first thought it was Southern merger related,
> but we quickly found out that there were going to
> be only three such units and that they were
> specifically for the special train. These units
> were painted around December 1981, and we went
> well past the June 1982 merger date and into
> mid-1983, I believe, before the NS "Thoroughbred"
> scheme was introduced, with the N&W and Southern
> sides of the company continuing their schemes
> until then....

Thanks Blindhog. I'd forgot that it was a few years before the "Thoroughbred" scheme was used on the locomotives.

I thought of a friend that might be able to shed some light on who approved the "skunk" scheme. I'll try to contact him.