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Nostalgia & History > Before DPUs -- Norden, Calif.


Date: 12/06/12 06:34
Before DPUs -- Norden, Calif.
Author: Copy19

This is just west of Norden near Norden Lake on the Espee Donner Pass line. Back in the 60s the Fs were ubiquitous. It was fun to see all the different freight cars from all over the country in those days too. One thing I could never figure out was the op plan for the use of helpers on Donner...near the rear, on the rear...whether to cut them off at Norden and follow the train down or stay with the train they helped.
JEB




Date: 12/06/12 07:42
Re: Before DPUs -- Norden, Calif.
Author: FiveChime

John:

I don't think there was a plan! Probably single train consideration. Great photos, please find some more from this time period on the "Hill".

Regards, Jim Evans



Date: 12/06/12 07:50
Re: Before DPUs -- Norden, Calif.
Author: DynamicBrake

Great shot John, thanks for memories of better days on Donner.

Kent in Carmel Valley



Date: 12/06/12 13:44
Re: Before DPUs -- Norden, Calif.
Author: espee99

Later, wasn't it if the train was under 4000T the helper was at the rear, and could come off at Norden, otherwise is was to be placed to push 1/3 and pull 2/3 of its tonnage. Some old hats say that with the older cabs the helper was placed ahead of the cab, and they say the practice carried on until the late 60s.



Date: 12/06/12 15:22
Re: Before DPUs -- Norden, Calif.
Author: tomstp

Yep, as a teenager working in the T&P station in Eastland, Tx I really enjoyed seeing all the foreign heralds on box cars. That used to make every train so different and interesting to see. Sure miss that.



Date: 12/06/12 15:53
Re: Before DPUs -- Norden, Calif.
Author: WAF

espee99 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Later, wasn't it if the train was under 4000T the
> helper was at the rear, and could come off at
> Norden, otherwise is was to be placed to push 1/3
> and pull 2/3 of its tonnage. Some old hats say
> that with the older cabs the helper was placed
> ahead of the cab, and they say the practice
> carried on until the late 60

70s

4,000 under, no help
4,000-5,000 one behind cab. CA... limit 8 axles behind cab
anything over 5,000 was cut in because of the number of locomotives

After cabs were taken off, rear ends built in RV to have two 6 axles shove on rear



Date: 12/06/12 17:06
Re: Before DPUs -- Norden, Calif.
Author: choochoocharlie

Great shot and I loved those old days too with rolling stock from all kinds of different railroads and busineses. Luckily I photographed a lot of the old cars back in the '60s, '70s, '80s, and '90s, along with the power on the head end, as well as the caboose and whatever else may have been on the rear end of the trains.

Sometimes out of Eugene, if the train was under 5,000 tons, the helper could be placed more likely on the point, as well as behind the caboose. But as mentioned, over 5,000 tons, the helper was almost always cut into the train to shove 1/3 and pull 2/3 rds of their rated tonnage. On shorter trains it also depended on what was just ahead of the caboose that determined whether the helper would shove on the caboose, or be placed ahead of the caboose by a car or more. Have photos of them placed one or two cars ahead of the caboose.

Have photos of an SP SD45T-2 shoving on the caboose between tunnels #1 and #2 in the Tehachapis and you can clearly see the front of the caboose coupled to the train is riding higher than the rear of the caboose that the unit is shoving on. That is why it is not recommended to shove on empty flat cars, even though I have photos that show them doing just that.

C.C.Chas.



Date: 12/06/12 19:27
Re: Before DPUs -- Norden, Calif.
Author: WAF

choochoocharlie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Great shot and I loved those old days too with
> rolling stock from all kinds of different
> railroads and busineses. Luckily I photographed a
> lot of the old cars back in the '60s, '70s, '80s,
> and '90s, along with the power on the head end, as
> well as the caboose and whatever else may have
> been on the rear end of the trains.
>
> Sometimes out of Eugene, if the train was under
> 5,000 tons, the helper could be placed more likely
> on the point, as well as behind the caboose. But
> as mentioned, over 5,000 tons, the helper was
> almost always cut into the train to shove 1/3 and
> pull 2/3 rds of their rated tonnage. On shorter
> trains it also depended on what was just ahead of
> the caboose that determined whether the helper
> would shove on the caboose, or be placed ahead of
> the caboose by a car or more. Have photos of them
> placed one or two cars ahead of the caboose.
>
> Have photos of an SP SD45T-2 shoving on the
> caboose between tunnels #1 and #2 in the
> Tehachapis and you can clearly see the front of
> the caboose coupled to the train is riding higher
> than the rear of the caboose that the unit is
> shoving on. That is why it is not recommended to
> shove on empty flat cars, even though I have
> photos that show them doing just that.
>
> C.C.Chas.

3 by 3 and 3 by 5 was pretty popular for consists



Date: 12/07/12 11:27
Re: Before DPUs -- Norden, Calif.
Author: JLY

During the early F-7 after steam power days betweer Roseville znd Sparks the helper use on eastbounds was generally decided by the tonnage on the R blocks and the OVE's. Blanceing of power to protect the west bound fleet was generally the criterion for east bound helpers to not be cut and turned west at Norden.
In those early days of deiselazation eastbound tonnage exceeded westbound so the majority of eastbound helpers turned at Norden and returned toi Roseville.
Before the introduction of the larger units which were the Century Series Alcos the rear helpers were cut in about 15 cars ahead of the caboose so the rear end of the train would hot foul the # 17 crossover in front of the Norden office. This would allow the helper to remoived fron the train at the helper crossover in shed 26 1/4, run round the rear of the train, shove the train back together, and either go to beans or return to Roseville. Helpers were randomly placed until the drawbar stresses bececme a problem with the larger units in about 1966.
Two four axle units were legal under state law to shove on the caboose but only one six angle unit wAs legal.



Date: 12/07/12 14:17
Re: Before DPUs -- Norden, Calif.
Author: Copy19

JLY Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> During the early F-7 after steam power days
> betweer Roseville znd Sparks the helper use on
> eastbounds was generally decided by the tonnage on
> the R blocks and the OVE's. Blanceing of power to
> protect the west bound fleet was generally the
> criterion for east bound helpers to not be cut and
> turned west at Norden.
> In those early days of deiselazation eastbound
> tonnage exceeded westbound so the majority of
> eastbound helpers turned at Norden and returned
> toi Roseville.

Thanks Bill.

That explains it. Back in my college days in the early 60s with the Fs I would watch trains go through downtown Reno. I usually would wait for a few minutes after an eastbound would go by to see if the helpers would follow it down into Sparks. But it wasn't consistent.

John Bromley
Omaha



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