Nostalgia & History > FoggFile: how 'bout a Big Boy cab ride in 1958?

Howard Fogg took these images in October 1958, when he rode in the cab of UP Big Boy #4004 from Cheyenne to Laramie ...

1. a view we rarely see, UP's long gone Tower A in Cheyenne, from the cab of Big Boy 4004, as it starts it's trip west to Laramie

2. no doubt where this was taken from, somewhere out on the main

3. and this classic scene of mainline steam that Fogg shot while 4004 was undergoing a service stop .... is this Harriman, or?

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and one more ....

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Wow, neat stuff Vince! Thank you...

Awesome! Simply awesome!

Excellent! Thanks for letting us see this stuff Vince!

The fact that it had to stop for coal and water only half way to Laramie speaks volumes about what happened to steam. Interesting to see stock cars in the train.

John Bromley
Omaha

A priceless glimpse into history, Vince! I have a couple of questions, no doubt borne out of my diesel-bred naivete. 1) Is the front coupler skewed sideways as a matter of custom, or did it just slide over that way during the trip? & 2) Would this be the coaling tower at Harriman, WY? I've scanned a couple of shots at Harriman out of the Bill Gibson collection, also with a Big Boy and the tower looks very familiar...

Lance

Middle pic must be approaching Speer?

Lance: yes that is Harriman, I can't answer your coupler question though

valmont Wrote:
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> Lance: yes that is Harriman, I can't answer your
> coupler question though

The coupler could be swung behind the door on the fireman's side of the engine. It was heavy and was likely a two man and a strong boy job. The reason was to leave a clean pilot face so vehicles struck on crossings would be shoved clear and not impaled on the drawbar. In winter the couplings would not be made inoperable by all the compacted snow from busting Wyoming drifts.

Posted from Windows Phone OS 7

> The fact that it had to stop for coal and water
> only half way to Laramie speaks volumes about
> what happened to steam.

It's my understanding that, under normal circumstances, 4-8-8-4s out of Cheyenne did not need to stop for coal between Chian and Laramie. They would stop at Harriman for water only. The coal chute there was intended primarily to cover steam power on the DP trains (from Denver), as they could run short of coal on Sherman Hill since they had longer climbs starting down around Greeley.


> Interesting to see stock cars in the train.

Stock cars on the headend of a westward freight train were typically loaded, either with cattle or (most often) hogs. Even though steam power by that time (late '50s) was normally assigned to slower "Drag" freights, those trains would occasionally handle livestock, if no hotshots were available to handle it.


Also, it appears to me that the second photo was taken at Speer - the signal seems to be the westward absolute signal for track 3, just east of the crossover near the east leg of the wye.

Take care,

Mark

mamfahr Wrote:
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> Stock cars on the headend of a westward freight
> train were typically loaded, either with cattle or
> (most often) hogs. Even though steam power by
> that time (late '50s) was normally assigned to
> slower "Drag" freights, those trains would
> occasionally handle livestock, if no hotshots were
> available to handle it.
>

Mark,

Please tell us about the origins and destinations of westbound livestock traffic on the 1950s UP. Excluding the Farmer John hogs, that traffic was completely gone by the early 1970s.

Best regards,

Rob L.

> Please tell us about the origins and destinations
> of westbound livestock traffic on the 1950s UP.


Hello Rob,

Here's a sample of westbound UP livestock traffic, from a few dispatcher's sheets that I happened to grab:

Mar 27, 1949:
hogs: 1 Odessa, Nebr to LA, 1 Denver to LA, 2 from "east" to LA, 1 from "east" to an SP destination, 3 from Denver to a destn on the SP, 10 others from "east" only shown as "west" destination by one of the dispatchers.
cattle: 1 Alliance, NE to Caldwell, ID (Q-Sidney-UP).

May 12, 1956:
hogs: 35 from "east" to LA, 10 from "east" to an SP destination.
cattle: 3 from "east" to LA, 22 from Denver to Saratoga, WY, 2 from Denver to Rock Spgs, WY.

Oct 19, 1956:
hogs: (all from unknown origins in the "east") 25 to LA, 3 to an SP destination, 2 to Portland, OR, 8 shown only as "west".
horses: 1 to LA from "east", 1 to LA from Hastings, NE.
cattle: 2 from Creston, WY to LA, 2 from Denver to LA, 1 from "east" to Ontario, CA, 2 from "east" to Ogden, UT, 13 from "east" to LA.

The records of livestock movements were required on dispatcher's sheets at that time and most often showed loading point and loading time & date, destination, type of animals and the train that handled them. Some dispatchers didn't bother with all of the details in all cases, as can be seen by destination notations such as "SP" or worse yet, simply "west". As far as loading points were concerned, when I note "east" above, that's meant to cover all UP territory east of Cheyenne. In all cases where "east" was written, there was a loading point noted on the dispatcher's sheet, but the station noted was the *reloading* point where the animals were rested en-route. In most cases, westbound animals that moved across the Overland Route via Nebraska were released & rested at either Sidney, Cheyenne or Laramie. Once rested & reloaded, the confinement "clock" started over again. I also can't say for sure where the "Denver" livestock actually originated; could have come from the Denver stockyards, or been received in interchange from the Q, RI or other RR, that's not specified on the sheets.

As a reference, some additional livestock movement info is provided in my "Wyoming 1949" article in last winter's UPHS Streamliner issue. I also plan to submit a more comprehensive article reviewing UP's handling of livestock traffic in the 1940s/50s to appear at some point in the future, perhaps later next year...

Take care,

Mark

Thanks, Mark.

Interesting how Southern California so heavily dominated the destinations for westbound 1950s UP livestock. Also interesting that, on the LA&SL, all the livestock was collected into a single train (the DLS - Day Live Stock), but across the Overland Route the stock was scattered among many trains, reflecting the diverse origins.

In 1971-72 there were stock movements UP-WP destined to the livestock auction yard at Stockton. Any evidence of UP-WP stock in the 1950s? I suspect SP bailed out of stock traffic in the late 1960s, leaving WP as the only route to get stock to Northern California. Perhaps some of the SP-destined stock in your reports was going to the same auction yard in Stockton.

Best regards,

Rob L.

I seem to recall newspaper articles back in the 1970s to the effect that Chino Ca. was the cattle rustling capital of the US, and not some place in Texas or the midwest as one might expect. My impression at the time was that most of the Chino cows were in the milk business rather then beef; but if there was as much transportation into the area as seems to have existed, there must have been a lot of animals coming in to become steaks and hamburgurs.

There are still (I think) cows in Chino, but it won't be very many years until the lst cow has been replaced with another condo development.

Wish I had been there.
I would love to experience a LIVE Big Boy.
90mac

#4004 is still with us-- in a park in Cheyenne. I guess there's an outside chance she could be restored to operation.