Nostalgia & History > One extreme to the other for SP F unit

In John Bromley's post below about plow less F units here is 6200 leading a train over Donner at Norden in 1964. The photo below it was in charge of train 90 the Coast Mail in 1960.

Robert Morris Photography
http://www.snowcrest.net/photobob/index1.html

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Did Burbank Jct have a TO signal? If not,
how many other SP trainorder stations
lacked signals (aside from terminals)?

Looks like orders are up for a Northbound train.

Kimball Wrote:
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> Looks like orders are up for a Northbound train.


On the late, great Espee, that "northbound" would be more properly be called a westbound train, as it would be headed towards 65 Market St, SF, otherwise known as Milepost Zero. AA

Stanford White
Carmel Valley, CA

Operations between Burbank Jct. and Los Angeles were by Rule D-251, direction of traffic with block signals, without superiority of trains.

The orders hung on the far track would be for a westbound train leaving D-251 territory and thus needing a clearance and orders to continue on the line to Palmdale.

IIRC there would not need to be a train order signal for westbound trains because all trains were required to obtain a clearance here, if no orders were seen "hung" for them they would have to stop and ask for them.

If a westbound train were heading up the coast he would get his orders from the stand you see beside No. 90.

It would be rare for an eastbound like No. 90 to get orders here, any yard engine could get on the main track and run with the signal indications in the direction of traffic provided he cleared the time of first class trains.

Burbank Jct's train order signal can be seen here as the LA bound Owl rolls past.

Robert Morris Photography
http://www.snowcrest.net/photobob/index1.html

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railstiesballast Wrote:
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>
> IIRC there would not need to be a train order
> signal for westbound trains because all trains
> were required to obtain a clearance here, if no
> orders were seen "hung" for them they would have
> to stop and ask for them.

All trains occupying the main (including D-251) need a clearance, except in Yard Limits. It just so happens that in 1960 Los Angeles Yard to Burbank Junction was Yard Limits. My guess is that all westward mainline trains received clearances at departure from Los Angeles Yard or LAUPT. If there were orders other than restrictions, they would receive them here.

agentatascadero Wrote:
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> Kimball Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Looks like orders are up for a Northbound
> train.
>
>
> On the late, great Espee, that "northbound" would
> be more properly be called a westbound train, as
> it would be headed towards 65 Market St, SF,
> otherwise known as Milepost Zero. AA

If you want to get technical, it would be westward, not westbound. Modern SP Employe Timetables and the Book of Rules never used the term bound, as in westbound. You have to go back before Harriman to find the term bound.

BCHellman Wrote:
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> railstiesballast Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > IIRC there would not need to be a train order
> > signal for westbound trains because all trains
> > were required to obtain a clearance here, if no
> > orders were seen "hung" for them they would
> have
> > to stop and ask for them.
>
> All trains occupying the main (including D-251)
> need a clearance, except in Yard Limits. It just
> so happens that in 1960 Los Angeles Yard to
> Burbank Junction was Yard Limits. My guess is that
> all westward mainline trains received clearances
> at departure from Los Angeles Yard or LAUPT. If
> there were orders other than restrictions, they
> would receive them here.


And that is a fact. That is where we received our clearance ans, as you say, non restricting orders. Orders that rstricted us on a meet were grabbed at BBJCT.


V

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