Nostalgia & History > Mystery Tower in Oakland !!

Several years ago, "Roustabout Al" posted a photo of operations along Middle Harbor Road west of the Adeline Street overpass. In a somewhat heated debate, he states that an Interlocking Tower once existed where the WP lead from their yard crossed over to the SP yard. I said NO WAY !! As much as I practically grew up in that area, I never saw a Tower except for Magnolia Tower.

WHO would have operated the Tower. What was its NAME ? Why have a Tower present just to cross the street. What was its true function, IF it existed at all ??

Anyway, I'd like all the whiz kids on here to take a deep look at the photo and let's see if we can come to an agreement on what we are seeing ! Ok ??

Take a long look down the track behind the locomotive and voice your opinion. Years ago, Stash and I assembled a detailed listing of forty-three towers in the Bay Area. We never heard of this one ! Thanks to all of you.

KRK

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That is a tower in the distance and not Magnolia.

Well it certainly looks like a tower. The WP crossed the street to the two SP Interchange Delivery tracks there. In the 1960s-1970s there was a clerks one storey shack there. I think those tracks led to the SP shipyard too

I came along way too long after this photo was taken, but I believe the tower is sitting on the portion of land that was later paved over and had some parking stall lines painted on it. This was adjacent to the railroad crossing (east side) and it looks like you can see the RR crossing crossbucks signs in the photo. This would have been the first crossing east of the WP yard office. We would park there in the late 80's early 90's to shoot the trains coming in. It was the only unexplained wide spot between the roadway (Ferro St) and the tracks. I had no idea that that spot was historic!

The whole are looks so much different today.

Gary



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/13/13 10:58 by SN711.

That's a tower!

Dr. Zarkoff would know. But he's on another Internet site.

Steve Hayes' book Western Pacific Depots and Stations doesn't mention a WP tower in Oakland, but a 1925 "Western Pacific agents and telegraphers posted wage scale" that appears on p.66 lists three rates for towermen at "Peralta St. Tower" located between wherever Oakland's "MD" telegrapher was stationed and Fruitvale. Present day Peralta St. in Oakland doesn't go anywhere near the WP, though if you extrapolate it across SP's West Oakland yard, it would have intersected the WP just short of its yard throat. Anybody know anything more about this tower?

Here's the link to the old discussion. Unfortunately, the link to the map Al provided no longer works:

http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?1,1070599

Here is the WP's "Union Street Connection" that ran over Peralta Street. Appears to have nothing to do with that mysterious tower.

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You guys are not being very helpful. I know it LOOKS like a tower-- but no one answered my multi-part question.

KRK

On 1918 Sanborn maps show the SP having a ferry slip in this area crossing the WP. I think this is your answer. http://images.search.yahoo.com/

stash Wrote:
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> Dr. Zarkoff would know. But he's on another
> Internet site.

Stash-- The following is from Dr. Zarkoff:
I think it's the corner of the WP commissary building, and the post-pier and ferry CZ's "launching pad" was located just behind it. The tin building in the right background is Moore Drydock (part of it is still around as in Schnitzer Steel's scrapyard operations), the gas holder (long gone) is over by Grove St. and the SP's line to Niles, and the old Aldeline overpass is visible in the left background (replaced in the 1980s with a spiffy new concrete one). As I recall, the crossbucks are on a street which started at Maritime St (unnamed on my Flying A map), crossed the WP's tracks at the west end of the WP's commissary and passenger yard, but not Ferro St. I forget where it wound up but there were to SP red electric bodies used as lunchrooms beyond the WP's passenger yard (unless I have the lcoation mixed up and they were on Ferro St or one if it's tributaries). This street now goes into APL's yard, unless APL has changed names.

The Doctor has spoken!

KRK

Westbound Wrote:

> Here is the WP's "Union Street Connection" that
> ran over Peralta Street. Appears to have nothing
> to do with that mysterious tower.

In 1925, the track crossing Peralta on your map was owned and operated exclusively by Key System, carrying their A and B lines. WP had no part of it until 1943, when Santa Fe and WP bought out Key's freight business and created the Oakland Terminal Ry., the "OKT" on your map. As such, the "Peralta St. Tower" mentioned in that 1925 WP wage list must refer to something else.

(Also, as the layout on your map would suggest, there was never a tower at the intersection of Peralta, Poplar, and Louise St.)

I tried looking at Sanborn maps, too, but it doesn't look like they created a detail map showing the area where the SP line to the freight slip crossed the WP main. They just have an isolated map showing the slip itself. In a 1946 aerial photo on historicaerials.com , the SP freight slip is already missing, along with the tracks leading to it, but there does appear to be a square building in just about the right place to be a tower just east of where the diamonds used to be. What we really need is someone with a WP employee timetable covering Oakland from the 1920's or 1930's.

KeyRouteKen Wrote:

> Stash-- The following is from Dr. Zarkoff:
> I think it's the corner of the WP commissary
> building, and the post-pier and ferry CZ's
> "launching pad" was located just behind it. The
> tin building in the right background is Moore
> Drydock (part of it is still around as in
> Schnitzer Steel's scrapyard operations),

The long metal building on the right shows up in the 1946 aerial, and the layout indicates that the crossing in the distance in the photo pretty much has to be Ferro St. - the next crossing to the east was at the switch for the balloon track around the roundhouse and is too far east - you would be seeing the roundhouse on the right and that metal building would be behind you. Also, there was no road paralleling the tracks from that next crossing, only at Ferro.

http://www.historicaerials.com/aerials.php?scale=3&lon=-122.29865952905928&lat=37.79695403367719&year=1946

Hey Evan--
I got this scoop from "Topper"...
If you're talking about the small building that was located at the west end of the SP-to-WP interchange tracks on the SP side of Middle Harbor Road, it was the Ramp Yardmaster's office. The Ramp Job would often go on spot next to it, and the crew could go inside to get out of the weather. They actually went on and off duty - and got their engine - at the Homestead.

KRK

Let's ask the guys on the tender, I'll bet they know! :-)(sorry)

>If you're talking about the small building that was located at the west end of the SP-to-WP interchange tracks on the SP side of Middle Harbor Road, it was the Ramp Yardmaster's office. The Ramp Job would often go on spot next to it, and the crew could go inside to get out of the weather. They actually went on and off duty - and got their engine - at the Homestead.

I'm pretty sure the view shows the WP's trackage on the estuary side (of Maritime St), and the engine cab completely blocks the view of the roundhouse. Evan is probably correct about the crossing being Ferro St. because only after Ferro crossed over (on the way to the Bay) was there a street on the estuary side of the WP. That big tin building was next to and paralleled the tracks in the WP's passenger yard, which hadn't been built in its final form when that 1945 areal view was taken. The WP drove a huge number of piles to build the pit tracks for servicing the Zephyr.

Sorry I'm late to the party. I've been stranded in Reno sick as a dog.

In digging through my WP archives, I have found references to WP Tower 13, called the Peralta Street Tower. Now, I can't find an exact location in my materials, but based on how the WP numbered its towers in the Oakland area this one would have been west of Magnolia Tower. It protected the crossing of an SP lead into a slip and related piers. It was reportedly opened in 1913 and retired in 1942 or 1943.

In looking at an Oakland map from 1912, the SP had a lead into a slip just south of the WP line. It crossed just west of what the WP later called the Old Yard, at roughly MP 5.25 near as I can estimate. The lead was actually the tail of a large wye. In looking at later track layouts for the SP, I can see where it looks like some tracks that would have curved in to form the wye were just severed north of the WP line.

It appears that at some point in the late 1930s or early 1940s, the port underwent some reconfiguration and had more land filled in. The SP likely abandoned the slip about that time and the need for the lead and tower was gone. The WP had tracks to piers in this area, it is possible some were previously SP served.

I'm going to venture a guess that our mystery tower in the photo is the WP's Peralta Street Tower. The switcher it passing MP 5 and the view is toward Oakland, so the location would be about right.

Okay, that's my theory.

Z