Nostalgia & History > Why did the CB&Q run "elephant-style"?

OK, I'll go ahead and ask: Why did the CB&Q almost always run multiple E-units "elephant style" i.e. all the units arranged nose to tail. Most other roads preferred to run them back to back, thus avoiding the need to turn the loco consists at the end of a run. Even with 4 unit consists, there is ample evidence the Q ran them all facing forward. PArt of the charm of the Q, no doubt. But why did they do this?

Was it some corporate edict from on high? An operational preference? What?

Just curious.

- Norm

The Santa Fe also did this. The theory was if the lead unit was damaged by striking an automobile or
some debre of some kind there would be another unit ready to lead.

I vaguely remember something from David P. Morgan's "Diesels West" about this issue. If I recall correctly, there was a quick-turn issue between the Q's long-haul passenger trains and its commuter runs, i.e., the morning rush hour power would double back out on the long-haul trains leaving mid-morning. Similarly, the same units that brought road trains into town in the afternoon would be broken up to take the evening rush hour commuter trains out. Because the commuter trains ran with one unit, the long-haul trains would wind up with all most all the units facing forwards.

Best regards,

Rob L.

raytc1944 Wrote:
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> The Santa Fe also did this. The theory was if the
> lead unit was damaged by striking an automobile
> or
> some debre of some kind there would be another
> unit ready to lead.

I think Santa Fe's practice was more the result of adding additional power to trains as the F and PA fleets aged in the 1960s. Photos from the 1950's usually show A-B-B-A Fs or A-B-A PA or E unit sets - with A's facing out - on the principle passenger trains. As the sixties progressed, 5-6 Fs seemed more common, often with two A's leading elephant style - same with the aging PAs assigned to the SF Chief. I've seen plenty of photos of pairs of FP45/F45s both arranged both elephant and back-to-back.

For some reason the SCL and predecesor roads where early adopters of all forward facing units, a practice that carried over to early Amtrak.

Dave

Reportedly, the first regularly scheduled CB&Q "Elephant Style" operation began with the introduction of the "American Royal Zephyr" in 1953.

The new streamlined Vista Dome "American Royal Zephyr" ran from Chicago to Brookfield, MO with 2 E units, typically. At Brookfield, the train split in to two sections with one section comprising of an E unit, head end equipment, a new 50 seat Chair Coach and a 6 Section, 4 Double Bedroom, 6 Roomette sleeping car operating west to St. Joseph, MO, via Cameron, MO.

The other section ran southwest to Kansas City Union Station with an E unit, head end cars, a Vista Dome Dormitory Coffee Shop Chair Coach, a 50 seat Chair Coach, a 10 Roomette-6 Double Bedroom sleeper and a 6 Section, 4 Double Bedroom, 6 Roomette sleeper. (not necessarily in that exact order)

Eastbound the operation reversed and the two sections combined for the trip to Chicago with the E units "Elephant Style" once again.

Years later, the train was eventually combined with the Aksarben Zephyr between Chicago and Galesburg and vice versa. The St. Joseph section lasted until the early sixties and eventually all passengers westbound for St Joseph went to KC and connected to another Q train to St. Joe.

Yes, I remember this carrying on into Amtrak with SDP40Fs on the Lone Star, and also on the Texas Eagle when it had 2 F40s (or later, a 500-Class GE Pepsi Can leading an F40, then later, 2 Genesis units--tho there was a very brief period when the Eagle ran with back-to-back F40s around 1982). Though in the Eagle's case, it was preceded by, and succeeded by, elephant-style ops. And understood that this was due to the reasons mentione above: high-speed bird strikes. And that elephant-style eliminated MANY a freight unit having to be added to the point in all cases. (Also, sometimes made necessary by these trains during the periods when they'd SPLIT into sections mid-trip heading for different city pairs but in the same direction).

unless you are the lead unit, the view is always the same...

Yukon Yeti

Marty Bernard's thread below titled "More CB & Q E7s" shows that the Q did not always run E units in "elephant style."

Back when my daughters were young, the first Disney movie we took them to see was "The Jungle Book" (which also happened to be the last movie that Walt had a hand in). The above discussion brought back memories of the "Elephants' Marching Song"--"By the right foot single file, over every jungle mile...." (nothing to do with railroading, but plenty of nostalgia)

Also with E's and F's you don't want crew having to pass nose-to-nose with those awkward doors and slanted faces. With elephant style you have more grabs to hold onto and less distance.

Marty's latest post, on CBQ E-8's, have some more contradictions to the elephant-style question.

That is the reason for it, as I was told it by 'Q' employees in the 60s.
it was for commuter staging at Chicago. Prior to that, the 'Q' ran power
on the Zephyrs, North Coast Limiteds, Empire Builders, Black Hawks, and
even the Mainstreeters, Western Stars and even the locals in A-B or
back-to-back configuration. I never recall elephant style running prior
to about 1961 or 1962. After that time, it became unusual to see anything
but elephant style on the Burlington's line to the Twin Cities.

Big money saver! They work for "peanuts"
. wag216

I have a photo of the American Royal Zephyr running elephant style in the fifties. It is a morning shot of the ARZ facing the morning sunlight eastbound with black nose stripes on the lead E unit. I will have to scan and share.

Here is the eastbound "American Royal Zephyr" train #56 passing Sandwich IL in 1958 operating with the normal arrangement of two E units "elephant style", to facilitate the earlier split train operation the night before, between St. Joseph, Kansas City and Brookfield, MO, where the two sections were combined. As you might imagine, a back to back operation of E units between Brookfield and Chicago, eastbound, would be difficult if not time consuming to combine the two sections. The same would be true for the westbound operation between Chicago and Brookfield where the trains were split for the two westbound terminals.

Note the three Havelock bags on the head end, a normal consist line up for the American Royal Zephyr carrying mail and express in this era.

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One thing I liked about these E-units--especially the later-models--that they could be racing cross-country one day, then on a Chicago commute for a day or two--then back into road service!!! Something about that interchangebility and power utilization just appeals to me at my core...