Nostalgia & History > Other views of SP 4-6-2 2485

A few days ago, I asked for and got some help regarding the location of a San Joaquin Daylight photo in the Western Railway Museum Archives - thanks to everyone who helped!

http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?11,3520823

In addition to where, several folks also managed to pin down the "when" to a fairly narrow time frame in 1941-42, which I also appreciate. The only other photos I can find of 2485 in Daylight paint in the archives appear to depict the San Joaquin Daylight's inaugural eastbound run on July 4, 1941. The 2485 is cleaner and the RPO shown here is missing in the trainset in the other photo, so presumably the photo I asked about earlier was a "regular" run and not this first trip. The photos also suggest that the films and filters (if any) railfan photographers were using in those days were not very good at visually separating the white tender lettering from its orange background. The first photo at 7th St. in Oakland, CA is unattributed, the second and third are at Berkeley from the Vernon Sappers collection.

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I believe at that point in time, the tender and cab lettering was specified as "Aluminum Bronze" -- which isn't a shade of bronze, but means the pigment was made of aluminum particles and was referred to as a "bronzing powder."

Or, silver with black outlines, to most of us. That might also account for the lack of differentiation in reflectivity in the close shot.

Great pics. Wish I could have seen those lovely locomotives from up that close. And wouldn't it be a lark (ahem) to create a temporary fantasy P-10 Daylight costume of skyline casing and skirts for one of the existing P-8s, just for the grins and giggles?

~ BZ

Hey Bob,
The 2479 in San Jose is a P-10. You can recreate almost the real thing.
Joe Mann

With a decent pilot and a square tender, that would have been a really sharp engine...

Bill Deaver
Tehachapi, CA

Evan, Thanks for this follow up post, and the clarity it brings to that discussion, especially, for me and my eyes, the shot clearly showing the tender lettering. AA

Stanford White
Carmel Valley, CA

P-10 is a P-8 optimized for installation of a booster, and factory-equipped with a Worthington BL or BL-2 feedwater heater. Some P-10s also had boosters. Most* P-10s eventually were fitted with a skyline casing, 3 also got skirts and Daylight paint for "San Joaquin Daylight" service. None of the P-8s got skyline casings or skirts. In any case, underneath, they're the same design except for rear frame length.

Booster optimization:
The frame under a P-10 cab is 11.5" longer on a P-10 than a P-8. This has two effects on the P-10: (a) there is just enough space to remove the locomotive drawbar pin under the cab from below (i.e. the usual way), without running into the booster engine, and (b) the cab is mounted about 12" further back on the boiler than on a P-8, which makes it seem a lot more spacious inside. Point (a) is important because the drawbars must be removed annually for inspection per I.C.C. code. Charlie Hoyle, San Jose (Lenzen Avenue) roundhouse hostler, told me that S.P. 2475's drawbar pin was a %$#&*^ pain to remove because it wouldn't clear the booster engine, it had to be pulled up instead dropping it down, and you couldn't get a bottle jack underneath to break it loose (pushing up) if it refused to budge. (Drawbar and brake rigging pins tend to develop slight grooves at the wear spots. In these cases, they tend to stick in place.)

Worthington BL or BL-2 feedwater heater:
According to an early-1920s "S.P. Bulletin" employee's magazine, P-8 S.P. 2475 was the first S.P. locomotive to get a Worthington BL feedwater heater. It was installed at the Sacramento Shops.

P-8s (Baldwin, 1921) were later retrofitted by the S.P. with Worthington BL or BL-2 feedwater heaters. P-10s (Baldwin, 1923) were factory-equipped with them.

- Doug Debs

*Many thanks to Evan Werkema for helping me correct my original too-rushed-while-I-was-on-coffee-break-at-work posting!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/19/14 21:36 by DWDebs/2472.

She was a beautiful engine. At least part of her survives.

Martin

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DWDebs/2472 Wrote:
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> All P-10s eventually were fitted with a
> skyline casing, 3 also got skirts. None of the
> P-8s got skylkine casings or skirts. Otherwise,
> they're the same design.
>

P-10's 2478-2480 and 2490 never received skyline casings. Only the second batch of P-10's, 2481-2491 were equipped with boosters.

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