Nostalgia & History > So, you think the Suntans were rowdy?

Frank's recent great photo threads of the Suntan Special (thanks again!) came to mind when I ran across this old newspaper article. Southern Pacific soured on the Suntan trains because of continual drunkenness and violence, which I understand to be the major cause of the trains' demise (perhaps one of you could fill us in on that).

So here's a doozy of an article about the Sarsfield Guard's excursion from San Francisco to San Jose by way of Alameda in 1871.

The Sarsfield Guard was a national organization of Irish-Catholic Civil War veterans that formed its own companies within the various states' National Guards, including California. It was named after the "Hero of Limerick", a Jacobite general named Patrick Sarsfield, whom his sponsor, the deposed King James, once described as a brave fellow who had no head.

As you shall note, Suntan hooligans had nothing on these boys.

-E.O.

San Francisco Bulletin, April 25, 1871

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Sounds like an ordinary MBTA outbound after a Bruins game.

I do remember seeing the Suntan Special returning to The City on weekend evenings.........dozens of broken windows is what I remember. And it wasn't safety glass. I wonder how many people got put off in San Jose, having to find alternate ways (Greyhound) home.

Ed

Author Bruce MacGregor (sp?) mentions this behavior in his books about the South Pacific Coast.
He reported that conductors would try to segregate the families in some cars and the hoodlums in others.
This post was the first account of two-way rock throwing though.

When I was a young kid I remember a return trip on the Suntan when we were rolling along at a good clip near Gilroy. Passengers were jumping from the lead suburban car onto the trailing beep, Then a few thought it would be fun to put decks of playing cards on the overhead fans and let them blow all over the car .It was a fun train to ride especially when you were twelve years old.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/21/14 08:48 by photobob.

photobob Wrote:
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> When I was a young kid I remember a return trip on
> the Suntan when we were rolling along at a good
> clip near Gilroy. Passengers were jumping from the
> lead suburban car onto the trailing beep, Then a
> few thought it would be fun to put decks of
> playing cards on the overhead fans and let them
> blow all over the car .It was a fun train to ride
> especially when you were twelve years old.

Nice. By twelve years old, are you referring to yourself, or the adults?

-E.O.

hogheaded Wrote:
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> Nice. By twelve years old, are you referring to
> yourself, or the adults?
>
> -E.O.

In the olden days, 12 year olds were often charged adult prices for tickets and other admissions. But things were really different back then - may have something to do with it!

Cheers, Jim Fitch

I rode the Suntan many times. Our time was occupied by trying to meet girls.

SPDRGWfan Wrote:
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> In the olden days, 12 year olds were often charged
> adult prices for tickets and other admissions.
> But things were really different back then - may
> have something to do with it!

I've done a fair amount of historical research on alcohol use on the railroads (this is a straight line), and incidentally found that, in post Colonial times, census results for per capita alcohol consumption were based upon adults, 15 years, or older. Heck, my Uncle Clarence, who was born in the mid-1880's, was an alcoholic by age twelve, if I am to believe my father.

Things really were different back then. Those obligatory barroom brawls in old cowboy movies certainly seem like a more accurate reflection of the past than I used to think.

-E.O.

Interesting thread. Many claim that anti-social behavior on trains and in other public spaces is a reflection of contemporary values (or lack of values), but as described in the newspaper article and subsequent posts, people were rowdy in the "Good Old Days," too.

As long as there's alcohol and young males, there will be violence, no matter what era. This is what gave rise to the failed experiment of Prohibition.

BCHellman Wrote:
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> As long as there's alcohol and young males, there
> will be violence, no matter what era. This is what
> gave rise to the failed experiment of Prohibition.


Personally, I've always been a happy drunk.

-E.O.

RuleG Wrote:
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> Interesting thread. Many claim that anti-social
> behavior on trains and in other public spaces is a
> reflection of contemporary values (or lack of
> values), but as described in the newspaper article
> and subsequent posts, people were rowdy in the
> "Good Old Days," too.

There were different expectations, too.

When my dad was about ten years old, my grand-dad would send him to the corner saloon to fill my grand-dad's growler. Nobody saw anything unusual about a ten year old coming in and buying a half gallon of beer at the tap.

Today, they'd all be in jail for child endangerment...