Nostalgia & History > BRC GP7&9s had Blomberg Trucks wi Friction Bearings - Others?

Belt Railway Chicago (BRC) purchased new 8 GP7s (#470 - #477) and 2 GP9s (#480 - #481).  All came originally equipped with Blomberg Trucks that had friction bearings.  This was very unusual.  By the early 1990s, the GP9s and some, possibly all, GP7s were equipped with Blomberg trucks having Hyatt Roller Bearings.  Whether the bearings on the original trucks were changed or the entire trucks were switched, I do not know.  

Did any other road purchase units equipped Blomberg Trucks that had friction bearings?

ALLEN

   



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/26/15 11:44 by krm152.

Katy had a few.

FYI - It's "Blomberg". "Bloomberg" is a financial advisory firm.

Bob

ATSF100WEST......Out

CPR_4000 Wrote:

> Katy had a few.

Which ones?  I'm finding lots of pictures of MKT GP7's with the old, boxy journals that
came on a lot of early F-units and sometimes passed to geeps when the
F's were traded in.  However, these were roller bearings:

http://rr-fallenflags.org/mkt/mkt99abp.jpg
http://rr-fallenflags.org/mkt/mkt104arp.jpg
http://rr-fallenflags.org/mkt/mkt101bgs.jpg

Georgia & Florida did have some GP7's with plain bearings:

http://rr-fallenflags.org/geofla/gf702dsa.jpg
http://rr-fallenflags.org/geofla/gf703ads.jpg
http://rr-fallenflags.org/geofla/gf705ads.jpg

...and just for reference, here are some of the BRC units with plain bearings:

http://rr-fallenflags.org/brc/brc476ads.jpg
http://rr-fallenflags.org/brc/brc477aga.jpg
http://rr-fallenflags.org/brc/brc480aga.jpg

See also: http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?11,1869101

There's a photo of a Katy GP7 with solid bearings in the book Katy Diesels to the Gulf by J. Parker Lamb. It was shot in the early 60's, pre-Barriger.

Thanks for replies.
ATSF100WEST - Thanks for spelling correction.
Evan_Werkema - Appreciate your info very much.  I was indeed referencing the plain or friction bearings shown on the Georgia & Florida GP7s in the photos you posted.  Had no idea this road had units with this type bearings.  At some point in time they were changed to Hyatt roller bearings; either before or after the units went into the Southern around 1963.  Also appreciated the BRC photos of the two GP7s and the GP9; they illustrated the units discussed in my original post.  Finally, agree that MKT GP7s have roller bearings in pictures you posted.
CPR_4000 - Thanks for confirming that MKT at one point had some GP7s with plain or friction bearings.  After you first mentioned this, I seemed to recall having seem a photo in Extra 2200 many years ago.  I know my mind is not playing tricks on me.
ALLEN
    

The long time head of motive power at BRC was a real character, I can't recall his name but his father was also a long time locomotive guy and wrote a book "One Man's Locomotives" which chronicled his career...pretty good book as I recall.

Anyways the guy was famous for being "old school" and had to be dragged kicking and screaming into such new fangled things like roller bearings.  He likely was the same when steam left.  BRC also ordered their early diesel power with tires (a la steam) and the wheels with tires and friction bearings lasted until the guy was retired and the units sold.  Some of the FB GP's had to be converted after BRC sold them off so they could be moved off line.

mns019 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The long time head of motive power at BRC was a
> real character, I can't recall his name but his
> father was also a long time locomotive guy and
> wrote a book "One Man's Locomotives" which
> chronicled his career...

The father was Vernon L. Smith:

http://www.amazon.com/One-mans-locomotives-experience-railway/dp/087046079X

Very cool thread! At first I thought it was just about identifying early EMD rollers as plain bearings, when they were not. But this was a fascinating look into how the steam to diesel transition wasn't always an overnight sensation!

~ BZ

Those GP 7's and 9's didn't have MU connections either.....

Guys, get real!   Modelers need to get more knowledgeable!!!

Hyatt rollers are NOT 'friction' bearings!  
Virtually ALL Blomberg trucks rolled on cylindrical roller bearings, from the earliest days.  
More recently, Timken's 'cartridge' style rollers have been used.

However, Hyatts used cylindrical rollers, that means that the axles could slide end-to-end freely.  
What DOES limit the end 'play' is the 'lateral blocks' mounted in the end caps of the bearing housing, or journal boxes.

 Timkens used tapered rollers ---- end play confined by the inner race -- the 'cones', and the outer race called the cups.  Timkens allowed very little end play, and there was no maintenance required ---"No user serviceable parts inside"....

There are 2 basic Hyatt variants---  'thrust' blocks supported by flat steel, spring-like, leaves supporting bronze end blocks.  The end housing has a rectangular bulge that holds the ends of the cushioning springs.

The other variant is a circular bronze block in what looks like a "conventional', round, bearing end cap.
EMD had tight specs that specified the allowable end-play; this was controlled by using appropriate shims,  applied between the end caps and the journal box, proper.

Look up the Hyatt roller info on the wwweb, or EMD loco maintenance books, or loco Cyclopedias. 
But, PLEASE, don't call them 'friction bearing' trucks!!!    

EMD Switchers often used the conventional plain bearing systems, employing the brass (babbitted, riding on the axle), the wedge on the back of the 'brass',
& with lube waste/lube pads in the cellar-- but, that's a different scheme, altogether!    

Wes C.

WES:
We are not confused.
We are not calling roller bearing trucks "friction trucks".
We are calling friction bearing trucks "friction trucks"!
Please look at the photos posted by Evan_Werkema of G&F 702, 703, 705 and BRC 476, 477, 480. 
The photos clearly show the units have Blomberg trucks equipped with friction bearings.
ALLEN 

mns019 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The long time head of motive power at BRC was a
> real character, I can't recall his name but his
> father was also a long time locomotive guy and
> wrote a book "One Man's Locomotives" which
> chronicled his career...pretty good book as I
> recall.
>
> Anyways the guy was famous for being "old school"
> and had to be dragged kicking and screaming into
> such new fangled things like roller bearings.  He
> likely was the same when steam left.  BRC also
> ordered their early diesel power with tires (a la
> steam) and the wheels with tires and friction
> bearings lasted until the guy was retired and the
> units sold.  Some of the FB GP's had to be
> converted after BRC sold them off so they could be
> moved off line.

In actual fact, from page 136 of "One Man's Locomotives":

"Our business was now at such a level that additional power was needed and I drew
up specifications for two 1750 hp Model GP9 road locomotives, and the order was
placed in late 1955.  These were no-frills locomotives, because of the limited money authorized.
Not even multiple unit or rolling bearing journals were provided.  Except for the seven pairs of
two-unit transfer locomotives,there was no multiple-unit power on the Belt, a situation I
could not tolerate for long.

Mr. Brasher had adopted the use of steel tires shrunk on wheel centers instead of rolled
steel wheels for the diesels and on EMD locomotives had selected a gear ratio of 65:12
with the 12-tooth pinion cut integral with the motor armature shafts....
The use of tires increased the diameter of the wheels by 2" and this provided additional clearance
for the brake rigging on the locomotives as they passed over the hump yard retarders.  Also, locomotives
operating in the South Chicago coal traffic wore their flanges rapidly on the 15-degree curves and the
tire replacement at that time cost much less than a whole wheel.  The use of tires also eliminated pressing
off the ring gears, etc., from the axles"


Mr. Smith began his career firing steam locomotive on mine railroads in the Minnesota Iron Range, then moved onto the Franklin Railway Supply Co. and the AT&SF mechanical department. He was a field rep with Franklin for the PRR T1's. His chapter on the K4's and T1's dispel more railfan rumors.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/27/15 10:36 by Englewood.

Sounds like there was good reason for using wheels with tires. 65:12 gearing also gives a top speed of 45 mph, plenty fast for the BRC's switching and transfer operations. I would think they'd also have had slightly higher starting tractive effort compared to a unit with the usual 62:15 gearing (60 mph).

Thanks to Englewood for posting info from Mr. Smith's book.  It gives a real insight as to the rationale .

ALLEN

CPR_4000 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sounds like there was good reason for using wheels
> with tires. 65:12 gearing also gives a top speed
> of 45 mph, plenty fast for the BRC's switching and
> transfer operations. I would think they'd also
> have had slightly higher starting tractive effort
> compared to a unit with the usual 62:15 gearing
> (60 mph).

Mr. Smith wrote:

"The low gear ratio was well suited to our heavy drag service and many of the Belt
locomotives could exert full horsepower continuously at speeds as low as 6.0 mph."

Re: my earlier post about Hyatts...  

My earlier post applies to the MKT locos,  ALL MKT pics are Hyatt RB equipped.  

I neglected to go further down the list of pics.....
I stand corrected.  

The  other pics DO reflect true 'plain bearing' application on GPs.  
However, we are looking at the external configuration,  the conventional 'box lids' are a clue that waste/pad lubricators are easily refilled with journal oil.   

Thanks for the critique to my earlier post.    

Wes C.

WES:
Thank you very much for your second message.
ALLEN