Nostalgia & History > Unpainted stainless passenger cars

Guess it is a slow news day between my ears, so I got to thinking.....and realized that there were not that many railroads that operated their stainless streamliner passenger cars unpainted.  Here's my list, from recall,  corrections/additions invited.  ATSF, CB&Q, WP...I think that's it in the far west.  ACL, SAL, FEC, Southern in the southeast.  NYC, B&M/MEC (not certain of these two), Reading (The Crusader),  in the northeast.  RI, C&EI (?), in the heartland.  I think all other railroads applied at least some paint on their cars somewhere.  Thanks for looking in, AA

Stanford White
Carmel Valley, CA

In the 1940s and 1950s, ACL painted the letterboards purple.    In later years the letterboards were unpainted, but they painted the roof black.  SCL also painted the roof black.   Not sure if you are counting black roof as a color or not. 

The original California Zephyr was unpainted.

dwatry Wrote:
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> In the 1940s and 1950s, ACL painted the
> letterboards purple.    In later years the
> letterboards were unpainted, but they painted the
> roof black.  SCL also painted the roof black.  
> Not sure if you are counting black roof as a color
> or not. 

Painting roofs of passenger cars black was a major mistake.  Why?  Black roofs get very hot and this causes an air-conditioning unit on the passenger car to work three times as hard to cool the car.  Stanless steel roofs and light colored aluminum paint, white or light gray painted are the best no matter what the rest of the car is painted.  

No, I was not counting a black roof.....or undercarriage painting as "colors".  Didn't know about the purple letterband on early ACL cars though, so let's eliminate ACL.  Yes, the CZ was unpainted, and remained so for it's entire existence.  I did not include the D&RGW because their "in-house" trains were painted, and very nicely so.  AA

Stanford White
Carmel Valley, CA

Purely Stainless Steel or including clad "stainless steel" cars from AC and PS for your query as they were painted but the car body fluting panels were usually not so as to blend with Budd cars or to generally simulate the stainless steel look? If so you'll get an enormous list of roads. Then there's the question around factory painted Budd cars that were later stripped to metal as per the PRR's South Wind. If you wish to zero in on purely un-painted metallic "silver" stainless cars or one with those panels you'll get  a really BIG list.

B&M and MEC painted the pier panels (window strips) on their PS stainless sheathed lightweights maroon and dark green, respectively.

Atlpete Wrote:
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> Purely Stainless Steel or including clad
> "stainless steel" cars from AC and PS for your
> query as they were painted but the car body
> fluting panels were usually not so as to blend
> with Budd cars or to generally simulate the
> stainless steel look? If so you'll get an enormous
> list of roads. Then there's the question around
> factory painted Budd cars that were later stripped
> to metal as per the PRR's South Wind. If you wish
> to zero in on purely un-painted metallic "silver"
> stainless cars or one with those panels you'll
> get  a really BIG list.                                                                                       Atlpete, I'm not sure what you're saying here....but if you mean painted cars with stainless fluting only below the windows.....those would not count.  However, I'm thinking PS cars were not necessarily painted where there was no fluting, the "flat" areas were also stainless steel.  To offer an example, there are two cars I see often that are all stainless PS products, former ATSF "Plaza Santa Fe, and former ACL Pullman "Hialiah", and feel free to correct my spelling here.  Cars that were delivered painted, as in your South Wind example, would have to be counted as painted for this list.  For my list of unpainted, all stainless cars, what railroads would you add?  AA

Stanford White
Carmel Valley, CA

N.P. Slumbercoaches

OK so based on your description you're saying solid stainless with no color on the letterboards with just black lettering then off the top of my head-  NYC, RDG, NYS&W, SAL, Southern, L&N, WRA, A&WP, C&EI, FEC, CRI&P, M&StL, AT&SF, CB&Q, DRG&W, WP, AT&SF, CRI&P. Throw in RDC's and you can add B&M, CNJ, LV, PRSL, LI, DM&IR, DSS&A, MKT. I'm thinking I'm missing a few more.....  

Susquehanna's RDC's had maroon letterboards, not sure about their locomotive hauled Budd coaches.

CPR_4000 Wrote:
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> B&M and MEC painted the pier panels (window
> strips) on their PS stainless sheathed
> lightweights maroon and dark green, respectively.

B&M's four 6-4-6 streamlined sleepers were an unpainted exception.

Dave

agentatascadero Wrote:
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> Guess it is a slow news day between my ears, so I
> got to thinking.....and realized that there were
> not that many railroads that operated their
> stainless streamliner passenger cars unpainted. 
> Here's my list, from recall, 
> corrections/additions invited.  ATSF, CB&Q,
> WP...I think that's it in the far west.  ACL,
> SAL, FEC, Southern in the southeast.  NYC,
> B&M/MEC (not certain of these two), Reading (The
> Crusader),  in the northeast.  RI, C&EI (?), in
> the heartland.  I think all other railroads
> applied at least some paint on their cars
> somewhere.  Thanks for looking in, AA

D&RWG (on the CZ)?

Santa Fe took the unusual step of painting some of it's prewar Budd diner and chair car roof silver after the war. I believe it was to cover up black paint that was applied during the war, or to cover tarnish and grime that had built up to the point where removing it would have been too costly.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/27/15 07:40 by ATSF3751.

ClubCar Wrote:
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> Painting roofs of passenger cars black was a major
> mistake.  Why?  Black roofs get very hot and
> this causes an air-conditioning unit on the
> passenger car to work three times as hard to cool
> the car.  Stanless steel roofs and light colored
> aluminum paint, white or light gray painted are
> the best no matter what the rest of the car is
> painted.  

Here we go again.  How many times do we have to explode this myth?  Do you really think that the PRR, ACL, SCL, B&O, SP, et al - all of them railroads that deliberaty painted their roofs black in the lightweight era (not to mention EVERY railroad in the heavyweight era) were that stupid that they didn't realize their AC systems would have to work "three times as hard" to cool a car with a black roof on a hot summer day?  This is absurd.  The railroads knew what they were doing.  They concluded that the color of the roof makes - at best - a negligable difference in the inside temperature on a hot summer day, and would have no adverse affect on the air conditioning load.  The AC units would be working hard regardless. 

Do people believe that the Seaboard Coast Line, who - in case anyone isn't sure - operated their trains during the day, in extremly hot, humid summer weather in Florida, would have gone out of their way to paint their roofs black on their shiny stainless steel cars only to have passengers complain all day long that the cars were hot?  Obviously, the cars did not run hot, and the AC didn't have to work harder due to those nasty black roofs.  The fact is, as a practical matter it makes no difference whatsoever what color the roof is painted as far as AC load is concerned. 

You can't get any more reflective than an unpainted stainless steel mirror-finish roof on a passenger car on a hot sunny day.  Try sitting in one of these cars all day without the AC running, and tell me "how much cooler" that car is with that unpainted roof. Then go up on the roof and touch that shiny stainless, and see if you don't burn your hand.   This car will get unbarebly hot inside without any AC, regardless of the "mirror finish roof", because a railroad car is a metal box on wheels that, even though it is insulated as much as possible against temperature, will still heat up on a hot sunny day because it's a metal box.  It's going to get very hot inside by early afternoon regardless of weather the roof is natural stainless or jet black.  Now turn the air conditioning on, let the car cool down the way it's supposed to, and enjoy yourself. 
 

DavidP Wrote:
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> CPR_4000 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > B&M and MEC painted the pier panels (window
> > strips) on their PS stainless sheathed
> > lightweights maroon and dark green,
> respectively.
>
> B&M's four 6-4-6 streamlined sleepers were an
> unpainted exception.
True B&M did paint their RDC's pier panels, but I have numerous photos in multiple books of their RDC's in early service with un-painted panels. The NYS&W Budd stock did indeed have maroon letterboards, both the RDC's and the highly bare bones non-ac commuter coaches, my mistake. NH, B&M and BAR had a series of 6-4-6 sleepes from OB that did not get painted letterboards either as I recall.
>
> Dave

so why are so many cars roofs turning white now?

Thanks to all who have contributed to this interesting (to me) subject.  Regards that list, roads that operated both unpainted and painted stainless cars are ruled out....roads such as D&RGW, NP, B&M, NH, MEC, ACL (I guess, they first painted the letter panels, then later left it unpainted), someone mentioned L&N, though I don't recall any of their unpainted stainless cars.  Most roads seem to be ruled out secondary to some amount of paint somewhere, and that is why I started the thread, because there really are not many roads that operated their stainless cars unpainted.  In anticipation of more posts, I'll wait a bit before posting an updated, thanks to all your contributions, list.  I wonder if there should be a seperate list for operators of RDCs, or if they should be considered "passenger cars", and included in that list.  Just remember, if a road operated both painted and unpainted stainless cars, they are ruled out of the unpainted list.  Now, if I could just climb aboard a train of these beauties....sigh.  Suddenly, I'm reminded of the great David P Morgan article on "the perfect passenger train"...given THAT consist, it surely would have looked like an early Amtrak rainbow train.  Can't recall the whole thing, but do remember the SP Lark Club positioned mid-train, a B&O baggage-dorm-lounge up front.  AA

Stanford White
Carmel Valley, CA