Nostalgia & History > Santa Fe steam at Sacramento

I took this back in 1988 near the shop area. They came in two years earlier and to this day have never been restored.

Adam

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Are these the 2 units stored on a siding next to the Sacramento Southern?  I rode their excursion last week and passed two large rusting steam engines, but could not get a good look at them.  They appeared to have 4 drivers, so I figured they were 4-8-4s.  I looked at them on Google Earth to confirm.  If so, they appeared to be just rusting away, and I was wondering where they came from and what was going to happen to them.

BlackWidow Wrote:
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> Are these the 2 units stored on a siding next to
> the Sacramento Southern?  I rode their excursion
> last week and passed two large rusting steam
> engines, but could not get a good look at them. 
> They appeared to have 4 drivers, so I figured they
> were 4-8-4s. 

The 2925 (lead locomotive in the photo) is a 4-8-4, the second locomotive, #5021 is a 2-10-4. Both pieces have been neglected for decades, by the California State Railroad Museum. When the Santa Fe "donated" all their equipment that was stored INSIDE a roundhouse in New Mexico, everything was in pristine condition. Obviously not any longer!

I looked at them on Google Earth to
> confirm.

Google Earth probably couldn't see that one is a 4-8-4 while the other is a 2-10-4.

  If so, they appeared to be just rusting
> away, and I was wondering where they came from and
> what was going to happen to them.

Probably nothing will be done with them.

Thanks for the quick response!  You are correct, I could not tell the exact model from Google Earth, but could tell they were large engines.  It happened so fast that all I could see was 4 drivers on one of them.  It was very sad to see that.  I was hoping that perhaps they were candidates for restoration.  That does not appear to be the case.

BlackWidow Wrote:
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> Thanks for the quick response!  You are correct,
> I could not tell the exact model from Google
> Earth, but could tell they were large engines. 
> It happened so fast that all I could see was 4
> drivers on one of them.  It was very sad to see
> that.  I was hoping that perhaps they were
> candidates for restoration.  That does not appear
> to be the case.

Nope, not "candidates for restoration", as there is no "restoration staff" at the museum that would be capable of such a large undertaking, not to mention the lack of faculties to do such a restoration and no place to operate them either. Very sad situation.

Hate to say it, but those two engines deserved much better.  At one time, it would have taken little work to put these back to work.   That was before the 1472 day reg and I've been told by someone in the know who looked them over in the roundhouse and said the worst thing about them was pigeon poop.   They would have been comparable to the restoration of the 3985 at the time.
In this case the Santa Fe made a poor decision.

I have often wondered how difficult it would be for the CSRM to use their transfer table and place those two wonderful examples of steam under a roof for a change.  Seems I read that some of their artifacts are in those stalls accessed by the transfer table, and they went to all the trouble of restoring the transfer table to operation.

nycman Wrote:
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> I have often wondered how difficult it would be
> for the CSRM to use their transfer table and place
> those two wonderful examples of steam under a roof
> for a change.  Seems I read that some of their
> artifacts are in those stalls accessed by the
> transfer table, and they went to all the trouble
> of restoring the transfer table to operation.

I thought I heard some time ago that, the old SP back shop building, is now condemned. Employees of CSRM can't even go inside to work.

The bottom line......TARP them, like SP did with their new T-Motors in Eugene for a period of time.

Kent in CArmel Valley

HotWater Wrote:
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> nycman Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I have often wondered how difficult it would be
> > for the CSRM to use their transfer table and
> place
> > those two wonderful examples of steam under a
> roof
> > for a change.  Seems I read that some of their
> > artifacts are in those stalls accessed by the
> > transfer table, and they went to all the
> trouble
> > of restoring the transfer table to operation.
>
> I thought I heard some time ago that, the old SP
> back shop building, is now condemned. Employees of
> CSRM can't even go inside to work.

Well if true then they might as well bulldoze it down, rip everything out and turn it all over to the developers....

Posted from iPhone

I was in the back shop in 2011 and the SPH&TS has a tour scheduled in October. In 2011 we were told to stay away from the other buildings due to falling bricks. The place probably needs way more money to restore than the state can ever justify.

Scott Schifer
Torrance, CA
TinyTrains Website

In order for the Santa Fe engines to fit in the erection shop they need to be separted engine from tender. Remember the erection shop in the days of steam only had the engine in the stall. The tenders were in another shop for work. So to get them inside you four tracks in the shop. Almost all of the space has already been used. Both the boiler shop and erection shop are not condemed. Both engine had the absteos removed and the boilers painted with red primer. Like all projects and groups they need money.

Posted from iPhone

You mean these two?  Doesn't the CSRM take wonderful care of their donations?

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Not all museums depend solely on government money. Many have "Friends" type groups that donate time and money. Perhaps someone may consider starting something like  that and looking for grants, donations, etc.  That's what we in Mojave are doing (slowly!) with the Mojave Transportation Museum Foundation...
For example, the Mojave Chamber of Commerce's SP caboose was evicted from its spot in a cafe parking lot. Golden Queen Mining DONATED a vacant lot in the middle of town for an office/visitor's center to display the caboose and other artifacts. They also DONATED the labor of their empoyees to hep prepare the site. We are also using a DONATION from TerraGen, one of the local wind energy companies, to move the caboose, and Golden Queen qualified for a grant from the county paid for with taxes raised from the wind energy companies in the area to help improve the appearnce of communities in the region.
We put on a monthly event at the Mojave Air and Space Port to help raise money. All of this is done by VOLUNTEERS including myself, Harlock, and a number of other very busy people who are way too busy to find time to complain...

Bill Deaver
Tehachapi, CA

Wasn't this some kind of forced donation on the museum? Something about SF saying you better take these or w they will be scrapped?

Pacific5th Wrote:
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> Wasn't this some kind of forced donation on the
> museum? Something about SF saying you better take
> these or w they will be scrapped?

Are you delusional? The Santa Fe was a CLASS ACT, and would NEVER have done anything approaching your baseless claim. The fault of this lies with the late CSRM Director Walter Gray - PERIOD.

The Santa Fe has always been treated like the fair haired step-child by CSRM.

Bob

ATSF100WEST......Out

ATSF100WEST Wrote:
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> Pacific5th Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Wasn't this some kind of forced donation on the
> > museum? Something about SF saying you better
> take
> > these or w they will be scrapped?
>
> Are you delusional? The Santa Fe was a CLASS ACT,
> and would NEVER have done anything approaching
> your baseless claim. The fault of this lies with
> the late CSRM Director Walter Gray - PERIOD.
>
> The Santa Fe has always been treated like the fair
> haired step-child by CSRM.
>
> Bob
>
> ATSF100WEST......Out

Bob, I wasnt making that claim, I was just asking something I had heard before. I thought it had something to with managment changes around the time of the ill fated SF-SP merger.

"steamdiesel" wrote:

>  So to get them inside you four tracks in the shop.

What does this mean?

>Both pieces have been neglected for decades, by the California State Railroad Museum.

Removing all the trinkets to a locked warehouse and preparing them for outdoor storage using J David Conrad's procedures is neglect?

>Probably nothing will be done with them.

All too correct, and it all comes down to the question of "money"

>Hate to say it, but those two engines deserved much better.

Bring your checkbook.

>Not all museums depend solely on government money.

Neither does CSRM. If it had to, it wouldn't be open.

>this some kind of forced donation on the museum? Something about SF saying you better take these or w they will be scrapped?

That's a bit of oversimplification, but yes. A friend of mine who was employed there at the time told me about it.

>The Santa Fe was a CLASS ACT,

Until J. S. Reed passed away. And I can tell you here and now, that the SP was a class act towards it's employees, but the Santa Fe wasn't.

The erection shop tracks are long enough for a locomotive only. The tender would need to be on the next track.

Posted from iPhone