Nostalgia & History > ATSF Car Float Slip Remnants in Richmond, CA

Here are some views from up on top of Pt. Richmond. The Santa Fe freight slip was reached through a tunnel through Pt. Richmond--a tunnel that is still in use. The BNSF use the "tunnel lead" to yard trains occasionally. The Richmond Pacific uses the tunnel lead to yard their interchange traffic with the BNSF and also pull down this lead with the outbound cars before making a shoving move back to one of the RPC yards. When they have a long train they will run into the tunnel even. 

As I understand it thanks to TO, the slip was knocked out of commision by a fire in 1984 and then abandoned. In earlier times, the ATSF tugs and barges would have interchanged with the NWP at Tiburon, Alameda Belt, State Belt at Pier 36 where Rob L. took pictures of a barge being unloaded. I don't know about the WP and SP interchange going by barge. 

Anyone know if the Santa Fe barges were "car floats" or just "barges" technically speaking?

Nice images. It was clear enough that day to see the broadcast tower on Mt. Sutro across the bay in The City.

IIRC the WP used the car ferry Plumas to interchange and to reach their own tracks in San Francisco.
The SP used the Dumbarton bridge to access the Peninsula, and I don't know if they used ferry or barge links to the NWP; they had rail access via Schelville.

atsf19455 Wrote:
---
>
> As I understand it thanks to TO, the slip was
> knocked out of commision by a fire in 1984 and
> then abandoned. In earlier times, the ATSF tugs
> and barges would have interchanged with the NWP at
> Tiburon, Alameda Belt, State Belt at Pier 36 where
> Rob L. took pictures of a barge being unloaded. I
> don't know about the WP and SP interchange going
> by barge. 
>
> Anyone know if the Santa Fe barges were "car
> floats" or just "barges" technically speaking?
It was Pier 43  for the State Belt and they were barges.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/27/15 09:10 by WP-M2051.

Thanks WP and RTB. I agree with the other poster, would love to learn more about this side of the Santa Fe in Richmond and see any old photos or memories. Here is a picture of the Santa Fe barge headed to Tiburon in '58 I beleive, courtesy of the Cushman Collection:

http://api.ning.com/files/nII-N*HRVI0ZUTFaBIJdfZRn*cVwJvR0rI7JDBR-CI7**BSWTAopJkh4b-cR-f43YSH5ATCAZdi82nw4HC*vuk83xpL5GZoD/cushmancollectionangelislandfromtiburonMarch1955.jpg?width=737&height=502

 

Out of print now, but if you can locate one somewhere, the Warbonnet had a great article about the SF Bay operations of Santa Fe.

Warbonnet, Volume 17, No. 1, 1st Quarter, 2011

Good photos, too.

atsf19455 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks WP and RTB. I agree with the other poster,
> would love to learn more about this side of the
> Santa Fe in Richmond and see any old photos or
> memories. Here is a picture of the Santa Fe barge
> headed to Tiburon in '58 I beleive, courtesy of
> the Cushman Collection:
>
> http://api.ning.com/files/nII-N*HRVI0ZUTFaBIJdfZRn
> *cVwJvR0rI7JDBR-CI7**BSWTAopJkh4b-cR-f43YSH5ATCAZd
> i82nw4HC*vuk83xpL5GZoD/cushmancollectionangelislan
> dfromtiburonMarch1955.jpg?width=737&height=502
>
>  

http://historicaerials.com ... i can't post specific links off the site with my DUMBphone ... the years go back to 1946

Posted from Android

atsf19455 Wrote:

> Here are some views from up on top of Pt.
> Richmond. The Santa Fe freight slip was reached
> through a tunnel through Pt. Richmond--a tunnel
> that is still in use.

This is Tunnel 5.  Back when it was first dug, it was timber-lined and double track.  I don't know when it was redone to its current single-track, concrete lined form.

> Anyone know if the Santa Fe barges were "car
> floats" or just "barges" technically speaking?

I'm a bit sketchy on the precise terminology too, but my understanding is that a "car float" is a type of barge, and both terms are appropriate.

> I don't know about the WP and SP interchange going by barge. 

WP started out with a tug-and-barge arrangement to ferry freight over to Alameda and San Francisco.  The tug Hercules preserved in San Francisco is an ex-WP tug:

http://www.nps.gov/safr/learn/historyculture/hercules.htm

WP later used the ferry Las Plumas (that's another terminology quandry: is a "car ferry" one that ferries automobiles or one that ferries railroad cars).

http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?11,2383792
http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?11,3516186,3519511#3519511

SP, despite having at least one and usually multiple ways of getting anywhere in the Bay Area by land, also floated cars across the bay up until the 1930's.  Aside from the "train ferries" that connected Port Costa to Benicia before the Suisun Bay bridge was built, SP had the ferries Thoroughfare and Transit that floated cars between Oakland and San Francisco at least; not sure if they also serviced the NWP.  I'm still looking for documentation of this operation, but SP had a freight slip up at the Oakland Mole (Long Wharf) and another Oakland slip near their shipyard along the estuary.  In San Francisco, the SP slip was near Pier 54 not far from the location of Santa Fe'sfinal China Basin slip.  A picture of SP freight ferry Thoroughfare is here (SP later had a passenger ferry that reused the name):

http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?11,3527442,3528499#3528499

A picture of Transit is in this thread:

http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?11,3516186

Additional unattributed images of Transit from the Western Railway Museum Archives are below.  Image 76576 shows the boat in service at an unknown date, and 76574 shows it retired at Oakland in 1935.  At some point, some additional structure was added, presumably to keep the decks from drooping quite so much.  There's another term I don't know - what are we supposed to call those pillars and guy wires when they are on a ship's deck?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/27/15 21:16 by Evan_Werkema.

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4thDistrict Wrote:

> Friends and I were out there a couple of weekends
> ago and have been looking online for old photos
> and track diagrams of the area when it was
> operational. Not much out there that I have found.
> Anyone with more "vintage" photos and maps, please
> post them!!

Cregory Carr has some ca.1950 Santa Fe track charts on his site.  Here's Ferry Point in Richmond: http://cregory.net/ATSF/19500000-1952TC/08/08-097.html

His Santa Fe track chart of San Francisco shows the arrangement after SP abandoned their freight slip near Pier 54 in the 30's, but before Santa Fe relocated their China Basin slip south to near the same location in 1955: http://cregory.net/ATSF/19500000-1952TC/08/08-104.html

Valley Division Vignettes has a later version of the chart showing the slip in its final location.

That is all great information.

If the Ferry Point Tunnel was tunnel #5, where was tunnel #4?

Gary

Posted from iPhone

SN711 Wrote:

> If the Ferry Point Tunnel was tunnel #5, where
> was tunnel #4?

Tunnel 4 was just east of Pinole.  It was bypassed to the south in 1939 by the big cut the BNSF line uses today.  The current San Pablo Ave. overpass was built at the same time, and passes more or less directly over where the west portal used to be.  A photo of the first westbound train through the cut with the portal and partially-built bridge in the background is on page 57 of Valley Division Vignettes.

Evan.
Thanks for the tunnel info.

Gary

Posted from iPhone

Cool info guys, especially about tunnel # 4. Never realized there was a missing tunnel, and that I've driven over it a bunch. Always thought that cut had been there forever.

Nathan

Posted from iPhone

I have seen some documentation that the NWP delivered loaded stock cars to the State Belt in the City which then had to move them as fast as they could to the SP at 2nd and King who then moved them down to South City. I know that the Belt had no facilities to water or do anything else for cattle and I don't think that the NWP had much south of Healdsburg. I don't think that SP could do anything with them anywhere in San Francisco either. Anyway what I have seen emphasized that speed was the important issue. The cows are on the clock for feed, water, and being let off the cars.
That is the only thing that I know for certain went from the NWP to the SP by barge (Through SF on the Belt) There may have been others but I cannot document any.

Bill Kaufman

railstiesballast Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> IIRC the WP used the car ferry Plumas to
> interchange and to reach their own tracks in San
> Francisco.
> The SP used the Dumbarton bridge to access the
> Peninsula, and I don't know if they used ferry or
> barge links to the NWP; they had rail access via
> Schelville.