Nostalgia & History > Redundant Signage

Found this at Los Angeles Union Station on February 12, 2010.  No comment!

Enjoy,
Marty Bernard

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Another FRA requirement?

Todd Greenberg
Round Rock, TX

Marty, as I recall there once was a photo years ago to show how well these worked wit a Santa Fe unit hanging out over the end of track hanging in air.

Bob Krieger
Cheyenne, WY

Not for too much longer...

MartyBernard Wrote:
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> Found this at Los Angeles Union Station on
> February 12, 2010.  No comment!
>
> Enjoy,
> Marty Bernard

hey at least it doesn't havs a sign for

Begin
New
Block
:-)

Posted from Android

That'll do when you get 'em stopped.   Aw crap!

Do trains entering the station tracks get better than a restricting signal?

The Amtrak brains out east in Philly could not understand the concept in CUS
so they probably had issues with it in L.A. also.

If trains got an approach type signal entering an unoccupied station track the brains
insisted that there should be a Stop Signal somewhere.  Since 1926 the crews at CUS never had a problem
understanding they had to stop short of the bumping post,  Stop Signal or no Stop Signal.

Perhaps the end of block signs were a compromise.  If that was the case they should have been hanging on the
bumping post not placed behind it.  If those are insulated joints I see, the signs should have been there. 

As I recall an Approach was also displayed into an unoccupied track in San Franscico but it has been a long
time since I was there.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/27/15 19:35 by Englewood.

Signs like those are all over the place where a block ends...

Bill Deaver
Tehachapi, CA

Regarding the big "ooops" in 1948--the span wire to the right of the locomotive front is part of the Pacific Electric line along Aliso Street, the gateway to the Northern District.

There is no block at LAUPT beyond the north end of the platforms as Yard Limits apply. 
A very wise operating official removed those signs at the bumpers.

I sincerely thank him.   

Englewood Wrote:
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> If trains got an approach type signal entering an
> unoccupied station track the brains
> insisted that there should be a Stop Signal
> somewhere.  Since 1926 the crews at CUS never
> had a problem
> understanding they had to stop short of the
> bumping post,  Stop Signal or no Stop Signal.

Dim memory tells me that there used to be an inoperative stop signal, just a red light, at the ends of the CUS tracks, but it's definitely dim memory. That's the solution I long ago proposed for King Street Station in Seattle, which looks like what will be implemented with the station track and signal project.

TAW
 

Maybe a good time to re-post an image I shot at the Laguna Niguel CA Metrolink station, a few years ago? 

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TAW Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Englewood Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > If trains got an approach type signal entering
> an
> > unoccupied station track the brains
> > insisted that there should be a Stop Signal
> > somewhere.  Since 1926 the crews at CUS never
> > had a problem
> > understanding they had to stop short of the
> > bumping post,  Stop Signal or no Stop Signal.
>
> Dim memory tells me that there used to be an
> inoperative stop signal, just a red light, at the
> ends of the CUS tracks, but it's definitely dim
> memory. That's the solution I long ago proposed
> for King Street Station in Seattle, which looks
> like what will be implemented with the station
> track and signal project.
>
> TAW
>  

It was a light bulb encased in a red globe placed ON TOP OF the multi-ton concrete block at
the end of the track.  There was no way to get close to passing that one.  150 feet prior to that was
a fixed "yellow distance warning light" that also marked the location of the required preliminary stop for trains (except Suburban
trains) backing in.

I guess that back in the day when supervisors were practical, experienced railroad men they felt it superflous to have a stop
signal at the end of a track that everyone knew ended there.  If an employee needed an explanation that the block system
ended at the bumping post he certainly should not be in charge of an engine or back up movement. 

To me it is no different than various locations that the BN had where, when operating against the current of traffic, a Clear signal was
displayed at interlockings even tho the block governed by that signal extended only to the other end of the interlocking.  It all boils down
to having supervisors and contract employees knowing where they are and what they are doing. 

Kimball Wrote:
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> Maybe a good time to re-post an image I shot at
> the Laguna Niguel CA Metrolink station, a few
> years ago? 

That is an excellent example of current management on all railroads whose main concern is to
have a rule to fire you by instead of taking necessary precaution to prevent accidents.
The red flag would be better used stuck where the sun don't shine, rather than placed in front
of the post.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/28/15 19:40 by Englewood.

Englewood Wrote:
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> Do trains entering the station tracks get better
> than a restricting signal?

A 1984 edition of the LAUPT Rules states:

"The last signal an entering train may receive may display a YELLOW aspect which indicates train is entering an occupied track or that switch to release track is lined against the movement.

"The meaning of a YELLOW signal within the LAUPT is:  Proceed at Restricted Speed."

By virtue of the use of the word "MAY" [display a yellow aspect] indirectly implies that a train enetering an unoccupied track would receive a green signal.  

Practices regarding what the last signal in a system would display varied between different railroads and locations.  For instance, in San Diego before CTC was extended to the depot in the 1980s, the last (dwarf) automatic block signal before entering unsignalled territory (with no detection) would not any aspect less restrictive than a yellow.

D F W

 Another redundant signal, but one the FRA requiers. This one at Palmdale on the Metrolink.




V

SLOCONDR
 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/28/15 18:04 by SLOCONDR.

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To what track does the signal apply?   It seems to be off on its own.  At least there dosen't look like there are green and yellow lenses.

Marty

Pic 2:  THANK YOU 4th District for posting this CLASSIC Santa Fe snafu at L.A. Union Station!  1 of my all time favorites.

SLOCONDR Wrote:
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>  Another redundant signal, but one the FRA
> requiers. This one at Palmdale on the Metrolink.
>
>
>
>
> V
>
> SLOCONDR
>  
Thank you for another interesting picture. 
Do you know that the FRA requires this signal
or did someone in a position of "authority" tell you that?

Where is the signal for the track on the right?
And why would anyone put a number plate on it?

By its location one would think the signal applied to the sidewalk it is to the right of.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 05/28/15 19:43 by Englewood.

SLOCONDR Wrote:
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>  Another redundant signal, but one the FRA
> requiers. This one at Palmdale on the Metrolink.
>
>
>
>
> V
>
> SLOCONDR

That's my old Radio Site so this would be Lancaster.........but you were close.
Chris
>