Nostalgia & History > Memory & Imagination

As a railfan with some accurate knowledge, or even memory of local history an interested person can stand in a given spot to shoot a train, or some other railroad scene and allow the mind to travel backward into the mists of time. As I frequently do, I did this very thing [again] back in March. I took a shot from a stub road crossing half way between Lyon County C & D roads (C½ Rd??) near the old Santa Fe location of Plymouth, KS. I suppose I was enjoying the idea of boring in with my telephoto lens head-on at a train traveling directly at me at track speed. I was safely standing at the crossing with the train still a mile or so away. Then during the instant I snapped this image I realized the train was at (or very near) what I believe to be the old depot location at Plymouth, KS. My imagination was immediately transported back 100 years, even though Mr Peabody & his Way-Back machine were nowhere to be found.

I’ve read someplace that the Santa Fe mainline between Emporia & Newton was double-tracked starting in 1911. And I’ve seen & downloaded a 1920 Lyon County photo of the old Plymouth depot standing next to 2 main tracks. From the image’s apparent light and shadow I can theorize that the depot stood on the south side of the double main line. I’ve recently explored the area on foot trying to imagine all possible scenarios for the depot sitting on either side. But per my description of the the visual evidence above I’ll stick with the south side as the old depot location. As usual, I’ll cheerfully accept any founded corrections. Evan??

Even if the old Plymouth depot was situated on the north side, the railfan ‘flight-of-fancy’ during my 2015 photograph is still accurate. I believe the old depot was right there. In that same area. Somewhere. In the last few months I had the pleasure of attending a visual presentation by Mr Robert D Walz, a staunch Santa Fe fan who has authored several marvelous booklets about all things Santa Fe. In his presentation he blew me out of the water when he showed an image of Plymouth, KS I’d never seen before. It was purported to be circa 1910. (He actually blew me out of that water 3 or 4 times that night, but the other images he graciously copied for me can wait for future threads… ;^) Seeing that image spurred me into creating this thread. Getting & adding the March 2015 telephoto image was just icing on the cake! Enjoy this look back at a couple of wowie-zowie “thens” & a routine “now”…

1. AT&SF Plymouth, KS depot scene circa 1915*. I’ve modified the original date estimation of 1910 to accommodate the 1911 construction of the second main track through here AND the estimated date of the photo of an upgraded Plymouth depot in 1920 (see below). You Maroon-minded fans oughtta look closely at image #1! I believe that boxcar 3rd out looks like it has a Rock Island shield on it…
(from the Robert D. Walz collection)

2. AT&SF Plymouth depot circa 1920(?). It looks like the station master, 5 other people & a young’un are posing for some unknown photographer’s camera at a fairly new-looking depot. I believe they are all standing in the shadow of the north side of the building with a morning sun illuminating the left-hand face. If correct, this places the depot on the south side of the tracks. This was well before the 1952 placement of the 3rd mainline on a raised levee to prevent a repeat of the disastrous Great Kansas Flood of 1951.
(Lyon County historical collection)

3. BNSF 5499 (east) is at the approximate location of the old Plymouth depot(s) on March 8, 2015.

Thanks for looking back & forth!
Lance Garrels
santafe199

*added later: I've just heard from Bob Walz (who'd middle initial is actually 'D'. The 'M' was in his email address and is for his wife 'M'errill. :^) My hearsay date of 1911 for the double track between may actually be when construction was 'totally completed'. Or it could be wrong altogether. I'm thinking I absorbed that 1911 date from a conversation years ago with the late Lloyd Stagner. So the original estimation of 'circa 1910 is likely correct for image #1. For me, tracking down history if fun, but it's even more fun when I get it right!  All corrections welcomed, of course...

Lance



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 08/20/22 22:35 by santafe199.

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santafe199 Wrote:

> I’ve read someplace that the Santa Fe mainline
> between Emporia & Newton was double-tracked
> starting in 1911.

The January 9, 1910 employee timetable shows double track already in place between Emporia and Braddock, and automatic block signals between Emporia and Plymouth.  Also, around 1910 Santa Fe started painting semaphore blades solid black, and in 1911 they started painting the company herald on the ends of depots.  The absence of the herald on the depot in photo 2 (and that its construction follows pre-1911 conventions) suggests that it was built before 1911, and the photo was certainly taken before 1920. The Wichita State University Archive gives the photo's date as 1909:

http://specialcollections.wichita.edu/kw/images.asp?xfile_name=kw_plymouth_lyon_ks1.jpg

> And I’ve seen & downloaded a
> 1920 Lyon County photo of the old Plymouth depot
> standing next to 2 main tracks. From the image’s
> apparent light and shadow I can theorize that the
> depot stood on the south side of the double main
> line.

A 1950 track chart shows the depot was gone by then, but the stockyard was still in place on the north side of the mains.  Assuming they didn't move either the stockyard or the pole line to the opposite side of the tracks, the depot in photo 2 was likely on the south side of the tracks, but the depot in photo 1 was on the north side, with the view in photo 1 looking to the east. 

I'm kind of curious what the number "104" signified on that signal in photo 1.  The 1891 and 1910 ETT's show Plymouth at milepost 120.0 and 120.2, respectively, so the signal number is clearly not related to the milepost.

By the way, the old Kansas atlases available on historicmapworks.com are often pretty good about pointing out where depots were located in the town detail maps.  The 1887 map for Plymouth unfortunately does not, but I thought you might find it humorous anyway - clearly they platted and planned a town far more grand than what eventually developed:

http://www.historicmapworks.com/Map/US/56857/Whiting++Reading++Olpe++Bitler++Plymouth/

Evan_Werkema Wrote: > The 1-9-1910 ... timetable shows double track already in place between Emporia and Braddock...
Of course, I'll take that as gospel. It would be nice to have direct access to timetables from the era. The 1911 date still sticks in my mind but in the handful of conversations I had with Lloyd [Stagner] I don't believe he would have related such an erronous date to me about the double tracking. He was a great stickler in his attention to accurate informational detail! So I have to believe I either read it pertaining to some other piece of Santa Fe history. Or it's possible I got the erronous date from one of the senior engineers or conductors early in my Santa Fe career stint. There were a surprising number of the senior guys that had at least a passing interest in Santa Fe's local history, but then it doesn't necesarily follow that their off-the-cuff info would always be dead accurate...

> ... [image #2] taken before 1920. The Wichita State University Archive gives the photo's date as 1909...
I checked the EXIF for that image which shows I downloaded it in July of 2014. I didn't know for sure Wichita State had an image database, but it's not at all surprising. I'm fairly sure I got it directly from TO, but that's not a guarantee, Where ever I did get the image the 1920 date came with it. I'll correct my image file accordingly. BUT, what would be a close guess for the date of image #two? Maybe circa 1900???

> ... the depot in photo 2 was likely on the south side of the tracks, but the depot in photo 1 was on the north side... I really juggled that one (image #1) back and forth. I could easily picture it both ways in my mind.

> I'm kind of curious what the number "104" signified on that signal in photo 1...
My first thought was milepost, but I immediately dismissed that idea. I'm certain I would have already known about any major milepost re-organizations on either side of Emporia.

And the Plymouth township plat is pretty wild. What's left of Plymouth today looks to be 9 or 10 widely spaced "streets" with maybe a dozen scattered homes. By traveling westbound on US hwy 50 you'll see a sign reading 'Plymouth' with a right hand arrow. Funny... there is NO counterpart sign for driving eastbound on US 50...

As usual Mr W, thanks for the info...

Lance/199



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/20/22 22:31 by santafe199.

santafe199 Wrote:

> BUT, what would be a close guess for the date of image #two? Maybe circa 1900???

The engine down there in the distance of photo 1 has a lot of space between the pilot and the bottom of the smokebox, suggesting a relatively high-drivered 4-6-0 or 4-4-2 of the kind Santa Fe didn't acquire until about 1900.  I'd guess that photos 1 and 2 were taken within a decade of each other, and the depot in #2 was probably brand new, so 1909-1910 sounds about right for #2.

> I'm fairly sure I got it directly from TO, but
> that's not a guarantee, Where ever I did get the
> image the 1920 date came with it.

The Wichita State archive has a number of nice depot pictures, many of which were shared on here by JoCoLB.  He has posted the Plymouth shot a couple of times:

http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?11,2606087,2607714#2607714
http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?11,2143093

Evan_Werkema Wrote: .> ...by JoCoLB.  He has posted the Plymouth shot a couple of times:.
Well, that sorta nixes the notion I got the full depot shot via TO. I wasn't even on TO yet when Larry posted the first time. The second time he posted the shot was in 2011, but I didn't add the shot to my collection until 2014. I rarely go "surfing" back through the photo archives (takes too much time away from scanning), but it might be possible I picked it up from someone (such as yourself) posting a link in some other reference matter. At any rate, I'm grateful to get corrections from reliable sources. It sure makes things alot easier for my [phantom] secretary... ;^)

Lance/199

Evan_Werkema Wrote:
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The 1887 map for Plymouth...........
 but I thought you might
> find it humorous anyway - clearly they platted and
> planned a town far more grand than what eventually
> developed:
>
> http://www.historicmapworks.com/Map/US/56857/Whiti
> ng++Reading++Olpe++Bitler++Plymouth/

In looking at the plat for Plymouth I discovered the town's fathers took some of the street names from Emporia, or Emporia took them from Plymouth, don't know which way it was done.  For example:  Mechanic St, Merchant St. and West St.

Mark