Nostalgia & History > Reading Company GP30 Locomotives

The Reading Company was the first railroad to take delivery of EMD's new GP30 locomotives back in 1962. The locomotives were significant as they were EMD's first Second Generation locomotive and they also introduced the green & yellow paint sceme on the Reading. First image westbound train at Abrams Yard near Bridgeport, Pa. Second rubbing shoulders with a N&W (ex-WAB) F7A at Bethlehem Engine Terminal and third image at the engine facility at Abrams.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/30/16 05:04 by RDG630.

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I offer a correction; the GP-20 was the first of the second generation by dint of the fact that Santa Fe traded in some FTs for '20s. Great photos!

One day in San Jose, Ca. at the passenger station I ran into a guy from motive power. He was sent down  from sacramento
to take care of some GP 30 problems that had arisen. He told me that some of the units were pumping out 2700HP due to
some "adjustment problems".

eljay Wrote:
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> I offer a correction; the GP-20 was the first of
> the second generation by dint of the fact that
> Santa Fe traded in some FTs for '20s. Great
> photos!

Your correction is incorrect.  It is based upon a faulty premise and also upon faulty facts.  The GP30 was designated a second generation unit because of advances in technology that had been incorporated into this model.
The designation had nothing to do with trade-ins.
However, to set the record straight on FT trade-ins, the Milwaukee Road, Boston & Maine, and Minneapolis & St. Louis all traded-in their entire rosters of FTs on GP9s.  Additionally, several other roads also traded-in some of their FTs for GP9s.  Obviously, the GP9 is not a second generation locomotive. 
ALLEN

I believe the F7 was a former Wabash unit not an NKP.

RDG630 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Reading Company was the first railroad to take
> delivery of EMD's new GP30 locomotives back in
> 1962. The locomotives were significant as they
> were EMD's first Second Generation locomotive and
> they also introduced the green & yellow paint
> sceme on the Reading. First image westbound train
> at Abrams Yard near Bridgeport, Pa. Second rubbing
> shoulders with a N&W (ex-NKP) F7A at Bethlehem
> Engine Terminal and third image at the engine
> facility at Abrams.

Posted from iPhone

Agreed.  The GP30 was a second generation loco.  The GP20 was not.

KG

Yes, it should b ex-WAB

i don't appreciated being attacked on a forum intended for enjoyment, krm152

you might have disagreed with me in a bit more graceful fashion.

obviously, you shoot from the hip.

this citation from the kalmbach archive supports your version of the "facts", based on the title:

EMD's GP20 - the last of the first generation diesels
from Diesel Era July 1998  p. 38
diesel  emd  gp20  prototype

these two support mine, based on the titles:

EMD GP20: Start of a new generation
by Hundman, Robert L.  Peck, David
from Mainline Modeler January 1986  p. 55
atsf  BN  CB&Q  diesel  drawing  emd  engine  GN  gp20  locomotive  prototype  sp  SSW  WP  

The Transition era "Geeps": EMD's GP20 and GP30 diesels
by Wright, Bill
from Model Railroading January 1982  p. 61
diesel  emd  engine  gp20  gp30  locomotive  prototype 

IIRC, Mr. Morgan termed the GP20 a second generation unit in this article:

Those perpetually young dieselsDoes it make sense to turn in a 15-year-old F3 on a new GP20?
by Morgan, David P. from Trains March 1961  p. 25diesel  tradein  upgrade

so, neither my premise nor facts are incorrect. eljay



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 05/30/16 08:06 by eljay.

Sorry eljay but, everything you referred to is all "railfan" related. Inside EMD, we referred to the GP30 as indeed the Second Generation. I spent almost 37 years working for EMD, starting in 1962. Also, sorry you are so upset.

eljay Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> i don't appreciated being attacked on a forum
> intended for enjoyment, krm152
>
> you might have disagreed with me in a bit more
> graceful fashion.
>
> obviously, you shoot from the hip.
>
> this citation from the kalmbach archive supports
> your version of the "facts", based on the title:
>
> EMD's GP20 - the last of the first generation
> diesels
> from Diesel Era July 1998  p. 38
> diesel  emd  gp20  prototype
>
> these two support mine, based on the titles:
>
> EMD GP20: Start of a new generation
> by Hundman, Robert L.  Peck, David
> from Mainline Modeler January 1986  p. 55
> atsf  BN  CB&Q  diesel  drawing  emd 
> engine  GN  gp20  locomotive  prototype  sp 
> SSW  WP  
>
> The Transition era "Geeps": EMD's GP20 and GP30
> diesels
> by Wright, Bill
> from Model Railroading January 1982  p. 61
> diesel  emd  engine  gp20  gp30  locomotive 
> prototype 
>
> IIRC, Mr. Morgan termed the GP20 a second
> generation unit in this article:
>
> Those perpetually young dieselsDoes it make sense
> to turn in a 15-year-old F3 on a new GP20?
> by Morgan, David P. from Trains March 1961
>  p. 25diesel  tradein  upgrade
>
> so, neither my premise nor facts are incorrect.
> eljay

I would think the GP20 was more of a hybrid between first and second generation locomotives. 
  It did employ some advancements beyond the GP9, including a turbocharged 567D2 and standard low nose,  however, I believe it did not have a sealed engine compartment such as that which came with the GP30 and subsequent models. The "pressurized" engine compartment may be the one major improvement that moved the GP30 into second generation status.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 05/30/16 09:18 by ATSF3751.

ATSF3751 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I would think the GP20 was more of a hybrid
> between first and second generation locomotives.
>  
>  It did employ some advancements beyond the GP9,
> including a turbocharged 567D2 and standard low
> nose,  however, I believe it did not have a
> sealed engine compartment such as that which came
> with the GP30 and subsequent models. The
> "pressurized" engine compartment may be the one
> major improvement that moved it into second
> generation status.

You are correct. The GP20 also still had some air operated switch gear, and still had the GP9 style of underframe. The GP30 had the central air compartment which pre-filtered the cooling air for pressurizing the electrical cabinet & engine room, as well as the mechanically driven traction motor blower providing cooling air to ALL four TMs. The GP30 also had the new "constant section" underframe.

In response to eljay’s comments, I agree that this forum is for enjoyment and the exchange of information.

Offering additional information or a clarification is one thing. Offering a “correction” is something else. A correction should be correct.

EMD designed the GP30 to compete against GE’s 2500HP Model U25B. EMD designated it as a “Second Generation” Locomotive and made the numerical model number 30 to highlight the fact that the GP30 had thirty improvements over the GP20. The GP30 was a 2250HP locomotive; 948 were produced.

By contrast, the GP 20 and GP 18 are really the last of the first generation.

The GP20, rated at 2000HP, is basically a turbocharged GP18. Only 260 GP20s were produced.

The GP18 was really just an extension of the GP9. It was rated only 50HP higher at 1800HP; only 350 units were produced. The GP18 features are virtually identical to those of a GP9. Also, the GP18 spotting characteristics are virtually indistinguishable from those of a GP9.

For the record, the GP9 was 1750HP; 3441 units were produced.

The facts support the conclusion that the GP18 and GP20 were the last of the first generation.

ALLEN

One question: was the GP 20 or the SD 24 the first turbocharged EMD product?

Posted from iPhone

dgraves Wrote:
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> One question: was the GP 20 or the SD 24 the first
> turbocharged EMD product?

Well, technically those experimental GP9 units on the UP, were the "first turbocharged EMD products", as EMD Engineering Dept. was working closely with the UP R&D Dept.. However, the SD24 was the first turbocharged EMD diesel locomotive, marketed to any railroad, and the GP20 followed closely behind the SD24.

krm152 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In response to eljay’s comments, I agree that
> this forum is for enjoyment and the exchange of
> information.
>
> Offering additional information or a clarification
> is one thing. Offering a “correction” is
> something else. A correction should be correct.
>
> EMD designed the GP30 to compete against GE’s
> 2500HP Model U25B. EMD designated it as a
> “Second Generation” Locomotive and made the
> numerical model number 30 to highlight the fact
> that the GP30 had thirty improvements over the
> GP20. The GP30 was a 2250HP locomotive; 948 were
> produced.
>
> By contrast, the GP 20 and GP 18 are really the
> last of the first generation.
>
> The GP20, rated at 2000HP, is basically a
> turbocharged GP18. Only 260 GP20s were produced.
>
> The GP18 was really just an extension of the GP9.
> It was rated only 50HP higher at 1800HP; only 350
> units were produced. The GP18 features are
> virtually identical to those of a GP9. Also, the
> GP18 spotting characteristics are virtually
> indistinguishable from those of a GP9.


>
> For the record, the GP9 was 1750HP; 3441 units
> were produced.
>
> The facts support the conclusion that the GP18 and
> GP20 were the last of the first generation.
>
> ALLEN
 
 I would say the GP20 has properties that may place it in both categories.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/30/16 09:45 by ATSF3751.

this is a railfan-related forum and few of us are emd insiders. what's your point?

HotWater Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sorry eljay but, everything you referred to is all
> "railfan" related. Inside EMD, we referred to the
> GP30 as indeed the Second Generation. I spent
> almost 37 years working for EMD, starting in 1962.
> Also, sorry you are so upset.

eljay Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> this is a railfan-related forum and few of us are
> emd insiders. what's your point?
>
> HotWater Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Sorry eljay but, everything you referred to is
> all
> > "railfan" related. Inside EMD, we referred to
> the
> > GP30 as indeed the Second Generation. I spent
> > almost 37 years working for EMD, starting in
> 1962.
> > Also, sorry you are so upset.

Maybe if you would admit that you were indeed WRONG,,,,,,,you might learn something!!!!!!

I never knew "second generation" was a builder-specific, or builder-coined, term. I do recall reading somewhere about the GP20 and SD24 being called second generation because of the turbocharger and low nose option. I guess if you think about it, only EMD and Alco would have any need to designate a second generation, because Baldwin and FM petered out when it started, and GE didn't have any real first generation production.

Why did Reading paint over the bottom Yellow after a year or so?

Most likely more simple to paint. They were also renumbered from the 5500 series to the 3600 series about the same time.

Chris Bost
Leesport, PA