Nostalgia & History > 5 Miscellaneous Roger Puta Photos

1. AMTK 285 with Train 11, The Coast Starlight, at Davis, CA in August 1985.

2. ATSF 3378 with an eastward train at Nichols, CA between Port Chicago and Pittsburg on the Stockton Sub. That's the Delta in the background in November 1980.

3. PRR 8586 (GP7) at 75th & Skyway, Chicago, IL with an inbound Valparaiso Train on March 31, 1964.

4. The SOO Line Gresham, Wisconsin Depot in September 1963.

5. WP 3015 (GP35) at Amtrak's 6th St. Station, Oakland, CA in March 1983.

Enjoy Roger's photos,
Marty Bernard



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/23/16 23:08 by MartyBernard.

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Very interesting picture of the WP train [at 16th St.]. My understanding is that WP had rights on SP between Oakland and San Francisco, so as to be able to end its trans-bay ferry service. But this is obviously not such a move. Was it a detour, perhaps, because of problems on Altamont Pass?

JGFuller Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Very interesting picture of the WP train . My
> understanding is that WP had rights on SP between
> Oakland and San Francisco, so as to be able to end
> its trans-bay ferry service. But this is obviously
> not such a move. Was it a detour, perhaps, because
> of problems on Altamont Pass?

Like maybe when they were redoing the tunnel?

Photo #4 taken from the cab of an F-unit awesome! CJ

Posted from iPhone

JGFuller Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Very interesting picture of the WP train . My
> understanding is that WP had rights on SP between
> Oakland and San Francisco, so as to be able to end
> its trans-bay ferry service. But this is obviously
> not such a move. Was it a detour, perhaps, because
> of problems on Altamont Pass?

In March of 1983 there was heavy rain and a lot of flooding in California, especially Southern California (remember the Tehachapi closure and detours?).  UP was having major issues with slides on Altamont and in Niles Canyon.  So, this was likely a detour train from Oakland to Haggin (near Sacramento) to get back on the WP.  By this time, getting a WP locomotive on the point of a mainline train was becoming a rare event.

billmeeker Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> JGFuller Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Very interesting picture of the WP train . My
> > understanding is that WP had rights on SP
> between
> > Oakland and San Francisco, so as to be able to
> end
> > its trans-bay ferry service. But this is
> obviously
> > not such a move. Was it a detour, perhaps,
> because
> > of problems on Altamont Pass?
>
> In March of 1983 there was heavy rain and a lot of
> flooding in California, especially Southern
> California (remember the Tehachapi closure and
> detours?).  UP was having major issues with
> slides on Altamont and in Niles Canyon.  So, this
> was likely a detour train from Oakland to Haggin
> (near Sacramento) to get back on the WP.  By this
> time, getting a WP locomotive on the point of a
> mainline train was becoming a rare event.

​Well Bill, that answers my question.  This picture looks like Martinez.  Same month and year.  Photographer unknown.

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Another View

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Can never have too many pictures of the Valpo dummy.

I have a story about the UP detour with the WP power at 16th Street in Oakland. I was standing next to Roger when the shot was taken.

As has been mentioned, solid WP power on a UP train in the Bay Area (or anywhere) by 1983 was extremely rare. I got a tip from J.D. Schmid, who at the time was working at the SP West Oakland Diesel shop on swing shift, that this train, the San Jose Turn, was going to detour on the SP's Cal-P. In the spring of 1983, the Bay Area rail network for all railroads was suffering from flooding and inundated right-of-way; thus necessitating all sorts of strange detours and routings.  I put the word out to the gang, but only Roger could devote any time on such short notice. We decided to pair up and chase it as far east was possible.

We first went to the WP/UP connection at Magnolia tower to photograph the transfer. An SP switcher pulled the train in reverse off the WP, all the way into Jack London.

As we were photographing this tedious maneuver, suddenly the late Ken Meeker, who was the daylight WP/UP yardmaster at Oakland, pulled up in his vehicle, stopped, whipped out his camera, and started banging away. At the time I only knew Ken superficially, but I was aware of him being a rabid WP fan; and, like all good WP fans, you were suppose to hate the SP, and at the time, Ken did so passionately. It was the David and Goliath complex. I also have every reason to believe it was genuine, as I'll explain later. In time, I'm sure he mellowed.

We made small talk with Ken and it was then that he revealed that he had purposely delayed the train out of Oakland so that he could finish his daylight shift and photograph it going over the Benica bridge. I'm also pretty sure he was responsible for the power consist. From there, Roger and I went to 16th Street, where we met Jamie, to photograph it going by the depot. Jamie could not get off of work, so this was his only photograph. From 16th Street, we decided not to tarry and head straight to the east end of the Benicia bridge. When we got there, Ken was already set-up.

Ken was in a very good mood. The sun was out on a gloriously clear day. Everything was perfectly set up for a classic, all-time, killer shot, and he was the mastermind of it all. This would be like shooting fish in a barrel. Life was good.

But then, things got interesting. Because the WP/UP delayed getting its train over to the SP, the SP decided to run the OARVY (or whatever the OVE was called at the time) in front of the WP/UP San Jose Turn, but no one was particularly worried about this event. There was plenty of daylight and it all looked good, but, there mustn't be any significant delays. Meanwhile, Ken was badmouthing the SP for this and that, when suddenly an SP westward train came flying by, in perfect light. I'm not even sure he took pictures of it, but I do remember him giving it thumbs down and calling it all sorts of names. The display bordered on child-like, but Roger and I had a good laugh, because the whole scene was rather comical, and Ken was flying high. Then the westward started to slow. And then the Ozol yardmaster came on the radio. He told the westward where to set out his cars. He also instructed the OARVY to hold back while the westward set out his cars, and that when he's done, the OARVY could then make his pick-up. The reason why the two SP's couldn't work in concert was that at the time, the Cal-P was D-251 through Ozol, and the yard was on the water-side. Thus, the westward train blocked the OARVY from making its set out. As soon as the radio transmission was completed, I glance over at Ken, and his face was completely ashen, in shock. I'll never forget that look. He stood there silent. Then he started to wonder, if by chance, that maybe the SJT was in front of the OARVY. At the time, none of us were completely sure; all we knew was that there was an OARVY out there. Then, a short while later, the SJT called the yardmaster and was wondering if there was any way to get around the mess. If I recall, they somewhat contemplated it, but in the end, they did not. It would have to sit and wait for the set-outs and pick-ups to be completed. The SJT was trapped. Ken, of course, was not happy. In fact, I'm pretty sure he went ballistic. And if he didn't have anything good to say about the SP before, it was nothing but rage afterwards. We all knew our perfect shot, a once-in-a-lifetime shot, would never happen. To be honest, I'm not sure he stuck around after the sun went down. All I know is that the once festive occasion turned into a solemn and dark event. I'll wager it was the last all-WP consist I ever saw.

As for the soup on the train, the photograph at 16th Street was taken at 3.25PM on March 1, 1983. It was the San Jose Turn with 71 cars and a caboose. The power was WP3015-WP3022-WP3008. Some might question the symbol of the train, but I'm pretty sure the info came from Ken. WP aficionados will point out that the SJT never ran through Oakland, but during this time, there was all sorts of bizarre movements.

It's been over 33 years. Roger and Ken are no longer with us, neither the WP or SP. It's funny what you remember.



    ,

 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/24/16 12:53 by BCHellman.

Great story! And Jamie was absolutely the best on DS-62 - he was greatly involved in the transition from D-251 to DTC to CTC [DTC was used during the cutover fromn D-251 to CTC - only multiple main track installation of DTC of which I am aware].

As for the Ozol YM getting into the act ... it is said that if the Commies invaded from the west, and were shipping men and materiel by train, the remainder of the US would be safe, because the Ozol YM would hold 'em out!

Grrreat photos!  I remember when 11/14 used to travel north/south on the SP West Valley thru Davis CA.

Robert  

I agree with "trkinsptr", the fourth photo on the Soo Line at Gresham, WI is awesome.  There is so much to take in that speaks to mid-century (and earlier) north American railroading.  The depot, the hand throw switch to the siding, the REA and Western Union signs, jointed rail, the F unit. Ten years earlier, there was still passenger service on the line.  Now, its all abandoned right-of-way.

Ha, great story Brad.  I can assure you that Ken seldom had kind words for the SP.  And I can bet equally that SP was much pleased to delay the WP train!

I have a similar Ken story.  Not long after this photo was taken, maybe a month or so later, when there was still a few scattered WP locomotives running around, I heard about a WP power set sitting in Oakland.  I called Ken, who was working the midnight shift as Oakland Yardmaster, and asked if he knew when the WP power would be leaving.

"It will be going out on the O-WPX" he stated, referring to a train that normally got out of Oakland well before sun-up.  "But it will not leave until 7AM."

"How do you know?," I asked.

"Because I will not allow him to leave until I am off of work," was the reply.



BCHellman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have a story about the UP detour with the WP
> power at 16th Street in Oakland. I was standing
> next to Roger when the shot was taken.
>
> As has been mentioned, solid WP power on a UP
> train in the Bay Area (or anywhere) by 1983 was
> extremely rare. I got a tip from J.D. Schmid, who
> at the time was working at the SP West Oakland
> Diesel shop on swing shift, that this train, the
> San Jose Turn, was going to detour on the SP's
> Cal-P. In the spring of 1983, the Bay Area rail
> network for all railroads was suffering from
> flooding and inundated right-of-way; thus
> necessitating all sorts of strange detours and
> routings.  I put the word out to the gang, but
> only Roger could devote any time on such short
> notice. We decided to pair up and chase it as far
> east was possible.
>
> We first went to the WP/UP connection at Magnolia
> tower to photograph the transfer. An SP switcher
> pulled the train in reverse off the WP, all the
> way into Jack London.
>
> As we were photographing this tedious maneuver,
> suddenly the late Ken Meeker, who was the daylight
> WP/UP yardmaster at Oakland, pulled up in his
> vehicle, stopped, whipped out his camera, and
> started banging away. At the time I only knew Ken
> superficially, but I was aware of him being a
> rabid WP fan; and, like all good WP fans, you were
> suppose to hate the SP, and at the time, Ken did
> so passionately. It was the David and Goliath
> complex. I also have every reason to believe it
> was genuine, as I'll explain later. In time, I'm
> sure he mellowed.
>
> We made small talk with Ken and it was then that
> he revealed that he had purposely delayed the
> train out of Oakland so that he could finish his
> daylight shift and photograph it going over the
> Benica bridge. I'm also pretty sure he was
> responsible for the power consist. From there,
> Roger and I went to 16th Street, where we met
> Jamie, to photograph it going by the depot. Jamie
> could not get off of work, so this was his only
> photograph. From 16th Street, we decided not to
> tarry and head straight to the east end of the
> Benicia bridge. When we got there, Ken was already
> set-up.
>
> Ken was in a very good mood. The sun was out on a
> gloriously clear day. Everything was perfectly set
> up for a classic, all-time, killer shot, and he
> was the mastermind of it all. This would be like
> shooting fish in a barrel. Life was good.
>
> But then, things got interesting. Because the
> WP/UP delayed getting its train over to the SP,
> the SP decided to run the OARVY (or whatever the
> OVE was called at the time) in front of the WP/UP
> San Jose Turn, but no one was particularly worried
> about this event. There was plenty of daylight and
> it all looked good, but, there mustn't be any
> significant delays. Meanwhile, Ken was badmouthing
> the SP for this and that, when suddenly an SP
> westward train came flying by, in perfect light.
> I'm not even sure he took pictures of it, but I do
> remember him giving it thumbs down and calling it
> all sorts of names. The display bordered on
> child-like, but Roger and I had a good laugh,
> because the whole scene was rather comical, and
> Ken was flying high. Then the westward started to
> slow. And then the Ozol yardmaster came on the
> radio. He told the westward where to set out his
> cars. He also instructed the OARVY to hold back
> while the westward set out his cars, and that when
> he's done, the OARVY could then make his pick-up.
> The reason why the two SP's couldn't work in
> concert was that at the time, the Cal-P was D-251
> through Ozol, and the yard was on the water-side.
> Thus, the westward train blocked the OARVY from
> making its set out. As soon as the radio
> transmission was completed, I glance over at Ken,
> and his face was completely ashen, in shock. I'll
> never forget that look. He stood there silent.
> Then he started to wonder, if by chance, that
> maybe the SJT was in front of the OARVY. At the
> time, none of us were completely sure; all we knew
> was that there was an OARVY out there. Then, a
> short while later, the SJT called the yardmaster
> and was wondering if there was any way to get
> around the mess. If I recall, they somewhat
> contemplated it, but in the end, they did not. It
> would have to sit and wait for the set-outs and
> pick-ups to be completed. The SJT was trapped.
> Ken, of course, was not happy. In fact, I'm pretty
> sure he went ballistic. And if he didn't have
> anything good to say about the SP before, it was
> nothing but rage afterwards. We all knew our
> perfect shot, a once-in-a-lifetime shot, would
> never happen. To be honest, I'm not sure he stuck
> around after the sun went down. All I know is that
> the once festive occasion turned into a solemn and
> dark event. I'll wager it was the last all-WP
> consist I ever saw.
>
> As for the soup on the train, the photograph at
> 16th Street was taken at 3.25PM on March 1, 1983.
> It was the San Jose Turn with 71 cars and a
> caboose. The power was WP3015-WP3022-WP3008. Some
> might question the symbol of the train, but I'm
> pretty sure the info came from Ken. WP aficionados
> will point out that the SJT never ran through
> Oakland, but during this time, there was all sorts
> of bizarre movements.
>
> It's been over 33 years. Roger and Ken are no
> longer with us, neither the WP or SP. It's funny
> what you remember.
>
>
>
>     ,
>
>  



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/24/16 20:01 by billmeeker.

Brad,

Thanks for the great memories of Roger and Ken. What the hell was I doing March 1, 1983 that I wouldn't be there...midterms at Berkeley probably.

Ron

billmeeker Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ha, great story Brad.  I can assure you that Ken
> seldom had kind words for the SP.  And I can bet
> equally that SP was much pleased to delay the WP
> train!
>
> I have a similar Ken story.  Not long after this
> photo was taken, maybe a month or so later, when
> there was still a few scattered WP locomotives
> running around, I heard about a WP power set
> sitting in Oakland.  I called Ken, who was
> working the midnight shift as Oakland Yardmaster,
> and asked if he knew when the WP power would be
> leaving.
>
> "It will be going out on the O-WPX" he stated,
> referring to a train that normally got out of
> Oakland well before sun-up.  "But it will not
> leave until 7AM."
>
> "How do you know?," I asked.
>
> "Because I will not allow him to leave until I am
> off of work," was the reply.
>
>

At the time, Roger knew Ken better than I because he worked with your dad at corporate WP in San Francisco (at the time of this event, he was running his bus company), and he remembered Ken as a kid. While we were waiting for the SJT, your brother was going on about how great the WP was, and how they did everything right. We listened patiently until the subject of signals came up, and when Ken declared that the WP green signals was the best paint scheme ever for a signal, then the both of us had had enough, and proceeded to tear into him. Roger was a signal nut, like I, and he held strong opinions about what a signal should look like, (as well as I) and the hideous green was about the biggest crime perpetuated on what was essentially SP signaling.  Roger called it men's bathroom green, more suitable for outhouses than a signal. Your brother wouldn't back down, and it disintegrated from there. I think only the westward train put an end to the argument.

One other incident about Ken that I remember. After UP cleared the last hurdle in taking over the WP railroad, within about 2 weeks, the entire WP roster was off the property. UP was a six-axle railroad, and what WP power the UP deemed worthy was banished overnight to Kansas and other flat territory for local duty. Only the SW1500s and a couple odd GPs remained to switch Oakland, San Jose and Milpitas. It came as a shock since we figured it would be a while before the UP simulated its power. Towards the bitter end, when even the stragglers were being sent to Prairie Hell, me and Eric (a.k.a AlcoRSD15) were hanging out at the top of Altamont. The dispatcher-lit signal at the east end suddenly come on,  indicating an eastward was imminent.  It was a miserable day -- raining, gloomy,, and getting darker by the minute. Finally I told Eric it was time to get out, no good picture would be forthcoming in the soup. Just before we left, we saw a truck pull up to the east end and stop. Then it turned around and left, but then was back in couple of minutes. Its behavior was strange, and we stayed to observe its movements. Was it up to no good? Finally, in the near gloom of dark, the train appeared, and out popped Ken, into the rain and mud, with his camera. The eastward had a WP geep. I can't remember if it was on the point or buried in the consist, but it was so dark and miserable, that it couldn't have possibly made a descent photo. At that point I felt sorry for Ken. Here was this WP junkie, out looking for a final fix.

I don't think I ever met anyone who was so fiercely loyal to a railroad than Ken and was to his WP. You could not say one bad word about the WP.

PS -- Us SP fans took note some years later when Ken became an SP dispatcher.

 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/24/16 23:51 by BCHellman.

rdlehmer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Brad,
>
> What the hell was I doing March 1, 1983 that I
> wouldn't be there...midterms at Berkeley
> probably.
>
> Ron

Which is were I probably should have been. Sigh.....

BCHellman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't think I ever met anyone who was so
> fiercely loyal to a railroad than Ken and was to
> his WP. You could not say one bad word about the
> WP.

I never really got to know Ken but I always thought Dale Sanders was rabidly pro WP too.  But Dale was also a Milwaukee Rd Lines West fan like I was.  Any decent chance he got he was off to Washington State or elsewhese to photograph the Milwaukee.  He made that one trip in the dead of winter that I thought was nuts but he ended up with some great foul weather photos.


Allen



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/25/16 08:55 by bradleymckay.

Nice shots!  Old SP RR train crews on the Amtrak train at Davis, CA, were based out of Oakland, Roseville, CA and Klamath Falls, OR and worked between Oakland and Klamath FValls. Oakland and Roseville engine crews worked to and from Dunsmuir, CA. Corrections are welcome.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/25/16 17:38 by RodneyZona.

Great stories Brad.


BCHellman Wrote:

>
> At the time, Roger knew Ken better than I because
> he worked with your dad at corporate WP in San
> Francisco (at the time of this event, he was
> running his bus company), and he remembered Ken as
> a kid. While we were waiting for the SJT, your
> brother was going on about how great the WP was,
> and how they did everything right. We listened
> patiently until the subject of signals came up,
> and when Ken declared that the WP green signals
> was the best paint scheme ever for a signal, then
> the both of us had had enough, and proceeded to
> tear into him. Roger was a signal nut, like I, and
> he held strong opinions about what a signal should
> look like, (as well as I) and the hideous green
> was about the biggest crime perpetuated on what
> was essentially SP signaling.  Roger called it
> men's bathroom green, more suitable for outhouses
> than a signal. Your brother wouldn't back down,
> and it disintegrated from there. I think only the
> westward train put an end to the argument.
>
> One other incident about Ken that I remember.
> After UP cleared the last hurdle in taking over
> the WP railroad, within about 2 weeks, the entire
> WP roster was off the property. UP was a six-axle
> railroad, and what WP power the UP deemed worthy
> was banished overnight to Kansas and other flat
> territory for local duty. Only the SW1500s and a
> couple odd GPs remained to switch Oakland, San
> Jose and Milpitas. It came as a shock since we
> figured it would be a while before the UP
> simulated its power. Towards the bitter end, when
> even the stragglers were being sent to Prairie
> Hell, me and Eric (a.k.a AlcoRSD15) were hanging
> out at the top of Altamont. The dispatcher-lit
> signal at the east end suddenly come on, 
> indicating an eastward was imminent.  It was a
> miserable day -- raining, gloomy,, and getting
> darker by the minute. Finally I told Eric it was
> time to get out, no good picture would be
> forthcoming in the soup. Just before we left, we
> saw a truck pull up to the east end and stop. Then
> it turned around and left, but then was back in
> couple of minutes. Its behavior was strange, and
> we stayed to observe its movements. Was it up to
> no good? Finally, in the near gloom of dark, the
> train appeared, and out popped Ken, into the rain
> and mud, with his camera. The eastward had a WP
> geep. I can't remember if it was on the point or
> buried in the consist, but it was so dark and
> miserable, that it couldn't have possibly made a
> descent photo. At that point I felt sorry for Ken.
> Here was this WP junkie, out looking for a final
> fix.
>
> I don't think I ever met anyone who was so
> fiercely loyal to a railroad than Ken and was to
> his WP. You could not say one bad word about the
> WP.
>
> PS -- Us SP fans took note some years later when
> Ken became an SP dispatcher.
>
>