Nostalgia & History > Sleeper Saturday: GM&O Timothy B. Blackstone

This is an undated Dick Kuelbs slide of GM&O sleeper Timothy B. Blackstone in St. Louis.  The Blackstone is a 4 section-8 roomette-3 double bedroom-1 compartment (4S-8RM-3DB-1C) sleeper built by American Car & Foundry (AC&F).  There were 4 of these sleepers, which were ordered in December 1946 and delivered in July 1950.  AC&F built these 4 cars in Lot #3208 to Pullman Plan #9012.  The other 3 cars were Culver White, Judge Milton Brown, and Samuel King Tigrett.  All 4 cars were retired in 1969 and sold: the Culver White was sold to the Bremen Transportation Company (Bremen, IN); the Judge Milton Brown was sold to Southwest Railroad Car Parts (Dora, AL/Greggton, TX); the Samuel King Tigrett was sold to Great Western Tours as #205 and renamed Golden Gate; and the Timothy B. Blackstone was sold to the Pacific Railroad Society as PAR #2 and renamed Golden Sunset, and was later renamed back to Timothy B. Blackstone.  It was later assigned #800367.  In 2015, Pacific RR Society sold the Blackstone to the Monticello Railway Museum (Monticello, IL), along with IC 40 seat diner lounge #4110 Shadrach Bond (#800373).  The Judge Milton Brown was later part of the collection of the Railway Museum of Greater Cincinnati (Latonia, KY), and it was recently sold and moved for display at the Casey Jones Village in Jackson, TN.  Does anybody know if the Brown was acquired directly from SW RR Car Parts, or was there another party in between?  Also, was the Brown acquired when it was still the Railway Exposition Company?  Does anybody have more disposition info or current status/whereabouts for either the White or the Tigrett?  Also, did the Tigrett receive an #800xxx-series number?  Thanks in advance!

It's been three months since my last post in this series, so...

Here's a link to the previous post in this series, of Pullman Glen Springs: https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?11,4029718

Here's a link to the following post in this series, of AT&SF Kiowa Tribe: https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?11,4172233



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/04/19 21:31 by Rainier_Rails.

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An interesting detail on these four cars was the teardrop markers mounted at letterboard height on the sides on the blind end.  You can see them a little better in this photo (Chicago 7-2-66, photographer unknown).  Two cars ran on the Midnight Special between Chicago and St. Louis for what must have been their entire service life and two ran between St. Louis and Mobile on the Gulf Coast Rebel as long as that train operated.  This meant there was no spare so presumably the GM&O relied on Pullman to supply a car out of the pool if one of these cars was ever bad ordered. 

Gordon



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/13/16 06:08 by gbmott.

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Culver white was a part of the Purple Martin train and moved to Atlantic Iowa when that collection was sold.   In 1995 or so the Atlantic Iowa collection was auctioned and the White was sold to a fellow ( name withheld ) from the Minneapolis area.   It moved to Fremont Nebraska where it spent 10+ years undergoing a leisurely PV conversion.   With the demise of the Fremont & Elkhorn Valley RR. I heard it was moved to Northern Minnesota.  Unless something has changed, it still has the same owner that bought it at the auction.    It has been rebuilt into an open platform car.

Tigrett was sold to Rod Basich who sold it to Mexico.

Interesting these cars appear to have fixed steps (similar to CN 1950's equipment). Thanks for posting, I really enjoy this series.

GM&O timetables featured their streamliner with Spanish Moss hanging on the tree, must have been the Gulf Coast Rebel.  Here's 1957.

B&O Bill

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Gordon, starting in 1958 one pair was on the Midnight Special and the other on the Gulf Coast Rebel as you said. But, in 1957 both were on the Gulf Coast Rebel.

B&OBill

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That's fascinating!  The May '58 OG still shows one on each train, so this must have been a change made for the summer season.  I wonder how long it lasted this way?  Unfortunately my next OG is early 1960 by which time the Gulf Coast Rebel was gone entirely.  From your timetable it appears that the two Pullman Betterment 8-3-1's (were they Show Me and King Cotton??) that were originally on the Rebel had replaced the LW car on the Midnight Special.  Just another reminder of how dangerous it is to say "always" when referring to anything involving the railroad!

Gordon 

EmpireBuilder Wrote:
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> Culver white was a part of the Purple Martin train and moved to Atlantic Iowa when that collection was sold.
> In 1995 or so the Atlantic Iowa collection was auctioned and the White was sold to a fellow ( name withheld ) from the Minneapolis area.
> It moved to Fremont Nebraska where it spent 10+ years undergoing a leisurely PV conversion.
> With the demise of the Fremont & Elkhorn Valley RR, I heard it was moved to Northern Minnesota.
> Unless something has changed, it still has the same owner that bought it at the auction.
> It has been rebuilt into an open platform car.

Thanks for the info on Culver White!  I'm now wondering if the info in W. David Randall's "Streamliner Cars Volume Three: ACF - Other Builders" was backwards: that it was the Culver White that was sold to Southwest Railroad Car Parts, and that it was the Judge Milton Brown that was sold to the Bremen Transportation Company.  The reason I say this is that the Griggsville Wild Bird Society/Purple Martin Train (Griggsville, IL) acquired several cars from Southwest RR Car Parts, specifically 3 ex-IC, nee-NKP 10 roomette-6 double bedroom (10RM-6DB) sleepers (these were part of the massive C&O order [P-S, Lot #6866, Plan #4167A, 1950], so the bedrooms were located in the center of the car).  These 3 sleepers were the: NKP #200 City of Buffalo/IC #3526 Canton, NKP #203 City of Indianapolis/IC #3528 Chandeysson, and NKP #202 City of Lorain/IC #3529 Charles City.  (I don't know what eventually happened to these 3 cars or Griggsville's 7 ex-L&N Pine-series 6 section-6 roomette-4 double bedroom [6S-6RM-4DB] sleepers.)

wharfrat Wrote:
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> Tigrett was sold to Rod Basich who sold it to Mexico.

Thanks for the info on Samuel King Tigrett!  Checking Robert J. Wayner's "The Cars That Went to Mexico", the Tigrett is listed as acquired by SCD in 1979 as #704 Estrecho de Gibraltar, and is listed as having 4 roomettes instead of the original 8, so either this is in error or Basich/Great Western Tours might've had 4 of the roomettes removed to make room for a small lounge.  That's only conjecture at this point, but it wouldn't surprise me.  Can anybody confirm my theory?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/13/16 15:51 by Rainier_Rails.

EmpireBuilder Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Culver white was a part of the Purple Martin train
> and moved to Atlantic Iowa when that collection
> was sold.   In 1995 or so the Atlantic Iowa
> collection was auctioned and the White was sold to
> a fellow ( name withheld ) from the Minneapolis
> area.   It moved to Fremont Nebraska where it
> spent 10+ years undergoing a leisurely PV
> conversion.   With the demise of the Fremont &
> Elkhorn Valley RR. I heard it was moved to
> Northern Minnesota.  Unless something has
> changed, it still has the same owner that bought
> it at the auction.    It has been rebuilt
> into an open platform car.

This car is located in Charles City, IA.

EmpireBuilder Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Culver white was a part of the Purple Martin train and moved to Atlantic Iowa when that collection was sold.
> In 1995 or so the Atlantic Iowa collection was auctioned and the White was sold to a fellow ( name withheld ) from the Minneapolis area.
> It moved to Fremont Nebraska where it spent 10+ years undergoing a leisurely PV conversion.
> With the demise of the Fremont & Elkhorn Valley RR, I heard it was moved to Northern Minnesota.
> Unless something has changed, it still has the same owner that bought it at the auction.
> It has been rebuilt into an open platform car.

Topfuel Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This car is located in Charles City, IA.

Thanks, Topfuel, for the info!

Thanks to everyone for the replies!

Topfuel Wrote:

> This car is located in Charles City, IA.

When I last spoke with the owner, his plans were to move it to the Duluth area.   His plans obviously changed.