Nostalgia & History > What are your dome car favorites???

A sunny Monday afternoon greeting to all on TO from here in Salt Lake City!

In looking at recent posts here in TO about the recent private railcar convention and special trains running around the west, it brought me to ponder the subject of dome cars. Now when I say dome cars I am talking about real domes, and not Amtrak's Sightseer-Lounge Cars or even the Santa Fe's famous Hi-Level Lounges which are known today as Amtrak's "Pacific Parlour Cars" on the "Coast Starlight." Those newer cars are nice, but do not even come remotely close to the viewing capacity and overall experience of riding in a real dome.

I find it amazing to realize that today (2016) Amtrak's Superliner cars are older than most of the streamlined passenger cars that Amtrak inherited from the individual railroad company's in 1971. As such, most railfans here on TO do not remember the all-too-brief dome car era on America's passenger trains. While getting old definitely has its drawbacks, I am very thankful to have lived and traveled in the dome car era, including Amtrak's first decade!

Periodically, TO members will ask us to share our favorites among the many trains, locomotives, and other rail-related entities that have existed in the past. I always enjoy being a part of those threads, and I thought I would post one about listing your favorite dome cars. While it would be fun to hear about your experiences riding aboard your favorite domes, I do not want to leave out the younger fans. Therefore, if you have favorites you are welcome to list them, even if you never got to ride aboard those cars or even see them in regular service.

I will go ahead and start this one by listing my five top domes in order, and why I liked them so much:

1) SP's home-built Dome-Lounge cars: What do you expect from a born and raised in the Bay Area fan who's favorite railroad is the SP??? My personal favorites among the SP domes were the ones with the angled love seats facing the front of the dome with the lower level lounge at the rear. Although many people say you could not see forward out of these cars, you actually could when the side windows in the front were clean. (The curved front windows on either side of the overhead air conditioning duct) I could see out very well during the SP era, and on at least one Amtrak trip (northbound on the "Starlight" in the fall of 1978) I rode an ex-SP dome which had just received all-new windows, including up front and the forward view was great! One of my favorite memories on an SP dome was watching the eastbound SP "City of San Francisco" (train 102) arriving in downtown Reno late one cold winter night in February of 1963 with an SP dome wearing the "Daylight" colors and still with the "Daylight" herald on its sides. These domes also looked better with ribbed sides and not smooth stainless steel sheeting. These cars had character, and added much to every train to which they were assigned...

2) The standard Budd-built "Vista-Dome..." This was by far the best dome for sightseeing and just watching and photographing the trains. Two-tiered overhead windows, full 360 degree visibility, and seats that were high enough to see straight forward along the top of the train, and you really could "look up, down, and all around!" Dark enough at night to see out well, and superb overhead visibility were also hallmarks of these cars that ran under various names on the WP, Rio Grande, Burlington, GN, NP, Missouri Pacific, and Canadian Pacific. The only exception to this best of all dome cars were the final Burlington dome coaches built for the 1956 "Denver Zephyr" that featured the steps in the front instead of at the rear of the dome itself, creating some glare from the step lights in the forward windows at night, much like the Pullman-Standard "Pleasure Domes" on Santa Fe's "Super Chief..."

3) Union Pacific "Astra-Domes..." Although featuring a larger overhead a/c duct and only one tier of windows on the side, the UP Astra-Domes still offered very good all-around visibility, plus the dome diners were without equal in America's dome car family. One drawback was that the upstairs seats in the dome coaches and dome lounge cars was that the seats were a couple of inches too low to permit direct forward visibility while seated. (Unless you were over six feet tall) I was always amazed that UP never corrected this issue, which could have been simply and inexpensively done by putting shims under the seat supports. Also, the dome-lounge cars looked much better on the rear of the "City of Portland" and "City of Los Angeles" were they were originally intended to be operated. (Yes, yes, I know all about the economics and practicality of running them behind the dome diners, but there were built as dome-lounge OBSERVATION cars, and as such belong on the rear of the train...) Also, I liked long, colorful streamliners, and never did enjoy plain stainless steel as much as I did UP yellow, SP Daylight, etc. As such, the UP's long E-unit powered domeliners had the most visual impact of any western trains, with the possible exception of the big-windowed "Shasta Daylight."

4) Santa Fe's "Pleasure Domes..." These flat-glass windowed cars with their individual swivel chairs up in the dome (along with some fixed two person seats) were the most comfortable domes to ride in, and they had good all-around visibility, except at night as already mentioned. (There was a small writing desk downstairs next to the forward seats, who's light glared up on the forward windows. Another issue never addressed by the owning railroad - Santa Fe.) The swivel chairs made interacting with the other passengers very natural and easy, and in the Amtrak era these cars retained their glass windows since they were flat, making sightseeing through clear windows possible. The curved domes got the dreaded Lexan plastic windows that scratched so quickly and easily, but the LA Coach Yard continued to cut flat glass for the Pleasure Domes which by 1977 were assigned to the "Coast Starlight."

One quick story about riding in a Please Dome at night which I will share here...(Pardon if you read this in a previous post) On the evening of May 9, 1979 I boarded the westbound Amtrak "Southwest Limited" in Albuquerque for the overnight return to LA. The train was just over three hours late, and in the consist was a Pleasure Dome which had been mistakenly added to the consist in LA bad order, and which Chicago just left in the consist and sent back to LA. The car was running ahead of the former NP dome-sleeper that was mixed in with the sleepers. We had about 15 or 16 cars and three SDP40F's for power. Well,k west of Flagstaff late that night I went up into this dome which had no lights or power whatsoever, hence, no writing desk glare in the forward windows. It was a full moonlit night and we were late, and the Santa Fe hoghead knew what the last notch in the throttle was there for - and it was not there for decoration! In the Ponderosa Pine forest west of Flagstaff, and on the broad curves of the Crookton Line Change west of Williams Junction our speed varied between a low of 90 and we topped out at about 105 MPH! What a spectacular ride through a forest over a superb piece of railroad in the moonlight! It was almost like being on an amusement park ride! Incidentally, we were only about 45 minutes late into LAUPT the next day...

5)  Santa Fe "Big Domes" and Great Northern "Great Domes..."  These were the big, full-length dome-lounge cars built by Budd for both railroads. Again, in keeping with my love for colorful trains the GN cars were my favorites - looking Great in green and orange and spectacular in Big Sky Blue! With long side windows, these cars never had the tunnel vision problem as bad as found on Milwaukee Road "Super Domes," and you could see out of the more conventional front windows on these cars than on the more sloped and glare-impacted Milwaukee Road domes.These were great cars to do on-board narratives aboard, although I did them in all of the car types listed here over the years. One of the biggest mistakes Amtrak made in its entire history was not obtaining Santa Fe's Big Domes (and the UP Astra Dome fleet) in 1971. 

Well, there you have my top five favorite dome cars. Now please don't get me wrong, as I love ALL dome cars, but these are my top five favorites. Now it is your turn to share your own memories of watching and riding these cars in post World War II America, or even just running them on your model railroad at home or seeing them only in photos and videos. I will certainly enjoy your stories and memories, as I hope others here on TO will as well, and you have my thanks in advance for adding to this thread. Would that we had trains like those today - Amtrak and its Superliners can never compare to those great trains of the 1950's and 1960's!

Best wishes to all,

ShastaDaylight

 

The only dome car I ever rode in was on the WP CZ back in 1967 over Altamont Pass. It was a great view! I did see other dome cars thru the years, but never rode in them. Thanks for the interesting post.

Larry

As was mentioned all the domes were good, and my favorite was the Santa Fe Big domes, however I rode in a ex Wab Dome on the Southern between Asheville and Salisbury NC,which I would say would be a close second.  Worst domes, if there is such a thing, the ex Mop Domes that were sold to t he IC with the forward windows blanked out.

Trying to rely on memory here,so some parts might not be that correct.
I believe it was about this time in 1968 or 69.The Central of Georgia ran
a dome on the "Nancy Hanks" between Atlanta and Savannah.I was able
to ride the car RT.I was thrilled,it was my first dome trip.I remember
sitting on a small box like camera bag so I could see better.I believe
this was one of the cars the SOU got from the WAB and was not built
by PS or Budd. (help here).The train made about a seven hour turn
around in Savannah and I was so excited,I stayed up all night in the
station,dozing now and then.

Uncle Joe,Seffner,Fl.
just a picture taker.com

Why, my personal virtual dome car, of course!

EO
wx4.org - The Dome O' Foam

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Domes are a treat, and when the situation is right it doesn't really much matter who the operator/builder is.
My 3 best dome rides;
1.  Riding directly behind a D&H PA-4 on the Adirondack from Montreal south into NY...  (It was a Budd dome)
2.  I once caught the Southwest Chief (maybe it still the Limited?) in Albuquerque headed to LA.  Just behind the power and forward of the Baggs was a full length GN dome!  It was deadheading to LA to be used in the never-to-be Merle Haggard Farm Aid Benefit train.  I talked the crew into letting me ride the dome (I was a very new Amtrak employee riding on my pass).  I had the car to myself and rolled out a sleeping bag on the long shelf over the stairwell.  I killed all the lighting and slept under the Arizona stars.  Score!
3.  TO member Stevo de W and I once rode a caboose cupola over Cumbres Pass at night in a snow & lightning storm...  that kinda counts?!
SR

SR, are you stalking me?

EO

Is that you?  Just follow'n that Trail o' Foam...  
SR

(At first I'd thought maybe an enormous snail was on the loose!)
 

D&RGW''s Silver Sky.

1) I enjoyed riding in the dome car on several Amtrak Capitol Limited trips.  Was enjoyable to view the scenery between Pittsburgh and Washington, DC as well as observe the PRR signals between Chicago and Pittsburgh and the Pittsburgh & Lake Erie RR signals east of Pittsburgh.

I'm pretty sure the domes were built by Budd for the Burlington, Great Northern and/or Northern Pacific.

2) In 2010, I rode in a Milwaukee Road "Super Dome" between Minneapolis and Winona, MN on a Friends of the 261 diesel excursion.  Very nicely refurbished dome and pleasant scenery along the Mississippi River.

3) My most recent dome car ride was on a 2014 New River Train excursion between Huntington and Hinton, WV.  Great scenery.
 

Love the Short Domes. I have always wondered why VIA operates the Skylight Domes backwards? When riding in the dome you are staring into the light from downstairs.

PCCRNSEngr Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Love the Short Domes. I have always wondered why
> VIA operates the Skylight Domes backwards? When
> riding in the dome you are staring into the light
> from downstairs.

See this thread, and especially entries by DrawingroomA on the history of turning the Skyline cars.

http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?15,4011558

The Northern Pacific Lounge in the Sky sleepers.  

My most memorable trip rifding a dome was coming back to the States after three years' service in Asia, including Vietnam, Thailand, and Okinawa.  I caught the North Coast Hiawatha in Seattle to ride back to my home of record in Billings, Montana.  This was in December, 1974.

My internal clock was about 12 hours out of sync.  I stayed in the dome leaving Seattle as long as I could stay awake.  Then the next morning I awoke west of Missoula and had a great breakfast in an original NP Budd diner.  It was a great way to come home!

Mind, looking back the dome may have been one of the original Dome Observations from the California Zephyr.  It was still a great way to come home!

Steve Barkley, MAJ, JA, U.S  Army, retired. 

 

Shasta, Thanks for this thread, it is always a great thing to talk dome cars better of course, to ride in one.  I'd have to say that being an SP brat did influence my preferences as a youngster, and, like yourself, I favored the home made SP domes with the Stairway to the Stars, the tallest room in railroading.   Now, I find the view is the best from the Budd short domes, with the Pullman and ACF products nearly as good.  While I appreciate the seting capacity and utility of the not-SP long domes, with the cafe downstairs, I find the 360 degree view from the short domes the best.       My understanding of short dome construction by all builders is that all were built to run with the stairs facing the rear, and challenge that statement about the DZ domes  being built to run stairs forward.  The ATSF Plesure Domes ran in both directions during their service life, depending on the year, etc.  They were designed to run behind the dining car, with the Turquiose Room forward, next to the dining room in the next car.  After a few years of suffering smoke pollution from the exhaust fumes of the diner ahead, ATSF changed the consist from then on, to running the Pleasure Dome aheaad of the diner, with the Turquiose Room now to the rear, still next to the dining room  behind.  That change meant the stairs to the dome would face forward.  Now you've done it....making me crave a dome car ride, with NO cure in  sight!  Let the suffering begin.  AA

Stanford White
Carmel Valley, CA

This post evokes fond memories of riding the Southwest Chief East abour 1979.  Leaving La Junta, we rumbled across the prairies of Western Kansas, watching the semaphores change as we passed,  from the dome of a former C-Z observation lounge.  Of course, it was spitting a bit of snow which added to the pleasure of the trip, tucked away in a warm dome car roaring across Kansas.
But that still can't match the open platform of TIOGA PASS climbing the Cascades out of Eugene as we did last Saturday night.  Wow!

Norm

Norman Orfall
Helendale, CA
TIOGA PASS, a private railcar

Well I'll start out with my least favorite:  the one I encountered on the Southern Crescent in 1979. I think it was an ACF design. Horrible forward visibility, which to me is the whole point of a dome car. 

Most favored?  A CP skyline car on Amtrak/D&H's Adirondack. The DRGW tunnel district in Silver Sky, with a Bloody Mary on my hand after breakfast. 

And the the entirety of this spring's trip from Vancouver to Toronto. I think I spent about 60 % of my waking hours in the Park car. 

A whole bunch more are tied for fourth. 

floor is a foot deeper on that design

Norm, A long-time favorite issue for me is: what is the second best seat on a passenger train.....up in the dome, or back on the observation car open platform?  Not much question why I would favor a car like the Sierra Hotel, eh?  I'll close with a question for hogheaded, doesn't all that foam obscure the view??  AA

Stanford White
Carmel Valley, CA

Wow, and a sincere Thank You to all who have taken the time to contribute to this thread! Now let me see if I can address some of the questions and comments so graciously shared here...

Larry (Ritzville): Any ride on a CZ dome, particularly on the old WP was a good ride!

mopacrr: I too loved the Santa Fe "Big Domes," even though they and their GN "Great Dome" cousins shared an interesting "float" as they went down the tracks at speed primarily from their long wheelbases and those six-wheel trucks. The ex-Wabash dome on Southern's Salisbury to Asheville train was usually the ex-Wabash Astra-Dome coach built for the UP/WAB "City of St. Louis." However, on occasion this train would run with the flat-glass windowed ex-Wabash "Blue Bird" dome parlor car. (Both would later run on the rear of the SR "Southern Crescent" south of Atlanta. As far as the MP domes were concerned, yes it was terrible that they blanked out windows with steel sheeting instead of replacing broken window glass (the Downing Jenks era at MP). The IC continued this when they acquired MP's domes in 1967. Amtrak under Paul Riestrup (who came from IC) did this same thing to the three ex-Chessie, ex-SCL dome sleepers (Moonlight, Starlight, and Sunlight Domes), and on the last SP home-built domes about 1977-1978. However, Amtrak only plated over the top dome windows and not the forward windows as MP and IC did... (Amtrak did this primarily to help the a/c unit in those cars which were old and did not function well to keep the domes cool...)

Uncle Joe: I think that Central of Georgia dome may have been one of the two I mentioned above that came from the late and very lamented Wabash to the Southern...

hogheaded: I love your "Dome O' Foam" virtual dome car! And the "modified" CZ ad is a true classic!! You should share more of this here on TO since some of us are new enough to this venue to have possibly missed older posts on the subject! Thanks again for sharing!

Steve (BoilingMan): I agree that it doesn't really matter who's dome it is, as long as its a dome! I'll bet that ride behind the PA-4 was great, but having your own private Great Dome sleeper on the "Southwest" was even better! I have always told passengers that riding coach all night is like camping out at 80 MPH without the bugs and snakes; well you did me one better since you were camping out at 90 to 100 MPH! I remember riding up in the Budd Vista-Dome (running backwards) all night on Amtrak's "Capitol Limited" from DC to Chicago. It was most impressive to go through Pittsburgh and around Conway Yard at night in a real dome - and on the old Pennsy yet! (We both did lots of "fun" things when we were first with Amtrak...) And yes, I will count your caboose ride with Stevo!

tomsp: The "Rio Grande Zephyr's" "Silver Sky (Vista-Dome observation-lounge car) was where I spent most of my RGZ trips, at least when I wasn't eating in the "Silver Banquet." Great choice!

RuleG: Those Amtrak "Capitol Limited" domes were all ex-GN and NP (see above). I am very envious of your getting to ride a real Milwaukee Road Super Dome along the upper Mississippi...

PCCRNSEngr and Jimbo: Thanks for your references to the ex-Canadian Pacific "Sceneramic Domes" (Budd Vista-Domes) on VIA's "Canadian." Any trip on VIA in my experience has always been a good one. Thanks for the link about why those Skyline cars were turned around...

BaylorMax: I loved your story about coming home from Southeast Asia (a sincere Thank You for serving...) and riding the Amtrak "North Coast Hiawatha." My first cross-country train trip headed east from Seattle on the "Empire Builder," and I stayed up all night under a faint moon because I did not want to miss Spokane or Glacier National Park. Those NP Budd diners were the last dining cars built in the USA before Amtrak (1958) and were wonderful cars. In the very early days of the NCH, it often ran with ex-CZ, ex-Denver Zephyr, and ex-GN observation cars on the rear...

agentatatascadero (Stanford): You and I have very similar tastes in dome cars, but the biggest problem for both of us is how to ride one in 2016? Thanks for the info about the Santa Fe Pleasure Domes, and as far as the direction the DZ domes faced several of Burlington's own publicity photos show the dome coaches (coaches only though) with the steps in the front in the direction the seats were facing...??? Oh well, perhaps TO ought to start organizing relatively inexpensive trips for members and their families to say ride a dome on the rear of the Amtrak CZ to Reno over The Hill. I would be interested in buying a ticket and would even volunteer to be the historical and geographical narrator for the run from Emeryville to Reno as I did for decades back in the day! (Now you've got me thinking about a dome ride as well!!!)

aronco (Norm): You brought back a great memory for me, and that was riding on the Santa Fe aboard an ex-Chessie dome sleeper out across eastern Colorado and Kansas in early 1979 (eastbound) at 90 MPH and watching those old semaphores drop ever so slowly. It was also great to look up and see the towering grain elevators fly by as we literally flew through those small farm towns at full track speed! As one who grew-up camping in Yosemite, including at Tuolumne Meadows in the high country, I have long loved the scenic drive over Tioga Pass on California State Route 120. Also, your observation about climbing Cascade Hill out of Eugene (southbound) on the back of the "Coast Starlight" is spot on. I have always been amazed at how the portion of the route around Mt Shasta in northern California has always overshadowed the absolutely spectacular trip over Cascade Hill (Willamette Pass) on the former SP Shasta Route. I always enjoy seeing your car on the back of Amtrak!

march_hare: You are right, there is nothing like riding in an ex-CP "Park" car anywhere on VIA, but particularly east out of Vancouver and across the mountains. My favorite of those cars since childhood has always been the "Banff Park," which I got to ride east out of Vancouver on the original CP line back in 1986.

Well, I tried to address everyone who took the time to add to this thread, and again my thanks and best wishes to you all for participating. I hope this brought back some fun and happy memories for each of you and others on TO as well...

Best wishes,

ShastaDaylight



 

Actually, I'm pretty sure there's an SP dome alive and well AND in daily service down in Panama of all places!
SR

BTW: My fave dome name was WP's CZ dome/obs SILVER PLANET.
Always made me think of Superman.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/27/16 18:05 by BoilingMan.