Nostalgia & History > 5 More SP Passenger Train Photos from Roger Puta

1. SP 1825, an Alco S-4, working the station, San Francisco, CA on August 24, 1967

2. SP 3003, a GP9, with SP Train 141, the Del Monte, at Jan Jose, CA in January 1968

3. SP 3005 and 3004, GP9s, with Train 126, the Del Monte, at San Francisco, CA on February 5, 1971

4. SP 3035, a FM H-24-66, with Train 138 at San Francisco, CA on May 22, 1970

5. SP 3209, a SDP45, at 16th Street Station, Oakland, CA in July 1972

Enjoy Roger's gifts,
Martry Bernard



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/18/17 23:11 by MartyBernard.

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Nice shots. Thanks for posting. #1 was taken the day before I hired out. In #2, the shot is of the northbound Del Monte, which was #141. #126 was the southbound edition.

Posted from iPhone

Thanks CPCoyote.  Fixed it.  Marty

The SP used Westbound and Eastbound designations for trains. Anything going away from San Francisco was an Eastbound regardless of geographic direction, and anything headed to SF was a Westbound. So since "even was leavin", train 126 was an Eastbound and 141 was a Westbound.

Dave

Great Roger Puta slides -- helluva photog and sad that he's no longer w/ us, too.
Quick ? for Espee authorities: 126 dropped those gallery cars at SJC, right? I'm guessing that they picked them up on the WB trip back to the city. From what I heard, the Del Monte engr job was a real plum -- maybe someone remembers specifics on that as well?!?

Nice pics of the Del Monte, 126 & 141.
Pic 2 is #141 at San Jose after it was capped off with a few commute cars behind the silver sides  on its way back to the City.
Pic 3 is #126 at 3rd & Townsend. Its ready to roll on down to SanJose. Once there, the hostlers wil ltake the lead unit to the house and the switchmen will cut off the rear commute cars.  Then its off to Monterey. They used those duel control stand engines just for that purpose.

Then Atk showed up and that was it for the Del Monte and a need for duel controls.


Nudge 

IC_2024 Wrote:
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> Great Roger Puta slides -- helluva photog and sad
> that he's no longer w/ us, too.
> Quick ? for Espee authorities: 126 dropped those
> gallery cars at SJC, right? I'm guessing that
> they picked them up on the WB trip back to the
> city. From what I heard, the Del Monte engr job
> was a real plum -- maybe someone remembers
> specifics on that as well?!?

Yes, #126's commute cars were dropped at San Jose, but they were usually subs, not galleries. The cars added to #141 the next morning were not the same ones that came off #126 the previous evening.
The Del Monte was absolutely a plum job. It paid 200 miles each way, 100 SF-Wats. Jct, then another 100 Wats. Jct.-Monterey. Of course, SP used that as a reason to pull the train off instead of trying to negotiate a more favorable local agreement.

Posted from iPhone

I might add that after the Del Monte was combined with a commute train, the westbound was originally #139. During the "train off" hearing, the PUC thought that required too early of a departure from Monterey and ordered SP to run the train later and advertise it. Combining with #141 instead allowed for about a one hour later departure. I think ridership improved slightly and the Del Monte remained until 4/30/71.
The eastbound commute combo was always #126.

Posted from iPhone

>It paid 200 miles each way, 100 SF-Wats. Jct, then another 100 Wats. Jct.-Monterey.

Did this have something to do with what ahd been a crew change at WVJ?

On the Western, all the seniority was on the "Sacramento doubles" because if a run was over 75 miles one way, it paid a full 100 miles. If less, then it was actual mileage. Since Oakland - Davis is only about 71 miles, it meant that a job which left Oakland and turned at Davis paid actual miles. Oak - Sac, on the other hand, was over 75 miles. So at one point in the 1950s, the engineer who took the C of SF to Sac came back on the Senator, earning 200 miles for that day.

126 & 141 pay was actually higher.

You were paid 100 miles SF to Wat Jct.

You were paid  100 miles Wat. Jct. to Monterrey and return, continuous time, over time after 8 hours.

You were paid 100 miles Wat Jct to SF.

The 2 highest seniority Engineers and Fireman were on those jobs.

I caught 126 off the Fireman's Extra list on January 30, 1971 with old Bloomers.  I made $42.30 to Wat Jct, $28.24 Wat Jct to Monterrey & return and $29.12 on the 31st, Wat. Jct back to the City. 

They were still out of Fireman so they doubled me back on #126.  4:20 PM OD in SF with Gorman.on the 31st. Paid $42.65 to Wat. Jct, $28.24 on the flip and $29.38 on Feb.1, back to SF.

Both Runs were with the 3004.

I worked the hostling job out of 7th St. on Feb. 5, 1971 with Kenny Johnson. That was when Hill & Munoz ran the red signal and piled into us at Tunnel 1.  We had a goat, 1843 pulling the 3003 & 3029 back from Bayshore and were lined into the outside Pullman. The cab where I sat was gone and I was sitting in Kenny's lap. The next day I signed up for BRCF (job insurance) and on the 10th, deadheaded back home to SLO to augment their extra list.  Liked that. It paid $63.64


Nudge
 

CPCoyote said:
>It paid 200 miles each way, 100 SF-Wats. Jct, then another 100 Wats. Jct.-Monterey.

spnudge now says:
>You were paid 100 miles SF to Wat Jct.
>You were paid  100 miles Wat. Jct. to Monterrey and return, continuous time, over time after 8 hours.

Until well into the 1980s passenger overtime on the SP was paid if you exceeded your schedule, not on a milage or hourly basis (unless there was some sort of local or vest pocket agreement). Wats Jct telegraph (the old building) was at MP 100; Mileage WVJ to Castroville: 10 (approximately); and Castroville - Monterey  15, + - a few tenths. This makes for a one-way trip of barely 125 miles. Given the length of the layover in Monterey, I have diffculty believeing you were paid to stay in the hotel overnight, unless or course the train's home terminal was Monterey.

For non-railroaders, BRCF is the Brotherhood Relief & Compensation Fund, an insurance outfit run out of Harrisburg, PA. Trainmen and Engine crews pay monthly dues into BRCF and it pays them their lost wages when they're held out of service for whatever reason.  Eastern railroaders refer to it as "The Harrisburg," since that's the headquarters.  Almost everyone pays into it, since it protects their earnings when they're out of service.  

For ES
You can beleive it. That's why I posted the amounts I made.  There was no passenger board at Wat. Jct.. a crew change point or they would have covered it. Thats the reason it was set up the way it was.  

As far as being paid to stay in a hotel room, it went like this. The SP did not have any lodging agreements for Monterey. The regular crews paid for their own rooms, by the month or year. This was taken care of through the Chief Crew Dispatcher in the City. If you were call extra for the job, you paid the crew dispatcher $5.00 to cover the room. When you got there you were given the fireman's room, or engineer's room. The regular crews kept their personal stuff there and the hotel maid cleaned every morning.

Just like 98 & 99, SF to SLO & return. It paid 252 miles at passenger rate one way, OT after running time, but they got a hotel room at the Winmen Hotel, paid for by the company. 

Remember, SP assigned passenger runs went on over time after the running time of the assignment.   Freight was one rate and passenger was at a lower rate for the same miles run.

When they cut off 76 & 75 that left the run of 98 & 99, SLO to SBA and return paying way to low, under minium rate agreement. Well, the 2 guys that had the seniority to hold the run, Al "Nuts & Bolts"Dillion and "Moose" Martin voted to except the pay rate, rather than have it thrown into the freight pool. Thats why it was called "The Thin Wallet" job.  What ever you made going down, you spent on 3 meals  before you started back the next afternoon.

Nudge

In #3 - is that first car an American Flyer coach?    Looks like a streamlined car with turtle roof ends. 

>You can beleive it. That's why I posted the amounts I made.  

I'm not questioning the amounts but wondering about the justifications.

>There was no passenger board at Wat. Jct.. a crew change point or they would have covered it.

In the 1970s, the only passenger extra list that I know of was in SF. Oak didn't have one, so when needed, an extra E came out of the pool in which the train was being run (Pool 3 for 5/6, Pool 1 for the San Joaquin), and same for the fireman. If there was no E or F rested in a pool, he came off the applicable freight extra board. If no fireman at all available, they grabbed whichever E was unlucky enough to answer the phone.

My original question, which no one has addressed, was whether the run between SF and Monterey and the way it was paid reflected some earlier set-up where the (psgr) Coast crews did change at WVJ, which was then changed to an early form of psgr run-through along the lines of Oak - SLO of pre-1987 Amtrak  days. If, as you say, it paid 150 miles each way, instead of something on the order of the actual 125 miles, I suspect this is the case, although the information might be lost to history.