Nostalgia & History > Erie Lackawanna New out of the box !

Photo No.1 & 2 New SDP45's at Pullman Jct July 1969. The reason for the SDP was for the large fuel tanks to make non stop trips between New Jersey and Chicago.
​PhotoNo3 a shot of two EMD's and a GE leader Pullman Jct May 1971.
​                                                   PRRFan

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Well done! Beautiful beasts!

First two are awesome!  Pristine units and a really neat refrigerator car.

Wow.  Show room paint.  Nice.   Would they possibly be working east for the first time?

Back when I would get called out of South Chicago Yard there would be all sorts of cool power traversing Pullman Junction to see.

Bob Krieger
Cheyenne, WY

How tight were the clearances on the Erie Lackawanna?   The placement of the roof mounted appliances makes it appear they were a bit worried about having anything too high on their power.   

What is the pole with the 3 color rotating beacons on it - next to the watertower behind the lead unit - last photo.

I'm sorry - behind the trailing unit # 3634

The gyro lights (or is it gyra lights; I'd have to check my C&WI timetable?) were green, yellow and red.  A rotating green indication, and gates open on the C&WI tracks, was authority for a movement on the C&WI across the Rock Island tracks.  A rotating yellow indication, and gates open on the Rock Island, was authority for the Rock to cross the Western Indiana.  Rotating red brought all movements to a stop.
  

Milwaukee Wrote:
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> How tight were the clearances on the Erie Lackawanna?   The placement of the roof mounted appliances makes it appear they were a bit worried about having anything too high on their power.

There were several tunnels through-out the system with low clearance, and the DLW electrified routes in NJ
>   

Milwaukee Wrote:
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> How tight were the clearances on the Erie
> Lackawanna?   The placement of the roof mounted
> appliances makes it appear they were a bit worried
> about having anything too high on their power.
>   
The roof appliances and the horn placements were mainly for clearence issues in the "tunnels" down to the riverbed  ore dock in Cleveland.  The tunnels were basically an urban trench with double track but really tight and even with applinaces some trains were restricted from passing in the tunnels.  They were also convient for getting down to Chrysler facility in Jersey City which they needed to use the Bergen tunnels of DLW heritage.  But that theory is blown because CR sent anything they wanted down there in early CR days. 

Rock Island and Western Indiana timetable special instructions
governing the crossing can be found here:

http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?11,3902245,3902584#msg-3902584
 

Milwaukee Wrote:
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> How tight were the clearances on the Erie
> Lackawanna?   The placement of the roof mounted
> appliances makes it appear they were a bit worried
> about having anything too high on their power.
>   

Erie Lackawanna mainline had generous clearances and, IIRC was one of Conrail's initial doublestack service routes at least between Buffalo and NJ.

Cool Refer car.....wonder what happened to that?

Erie definitely had generous side clearances as a result of its original broad gauge heritage.

Did Lackawanna ever run double stacks west of Dover?  I don't have a recollection that happened.

Double stacks were not invented until the early 1980s.  Well after Lackawanna existed.  Also by that time Conrail had removed most through freight from the Lackawanna routes in NJ in favor of the other lines.

Double stacks would not clear the overhead wire. 

cjvrr Wrote:
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> Double stacks were not invented until the early
> 1980s.  Well after Lackawanna existed.  Also by
> that time Conrail had removed most through freight
> from the Lackawanna routes in NJ in favor of the
> other lines.
>
> Double stacks would not clear the overhead wire. 

That makes sense, that's why I asked about it in the context of west of Dover.

Double stacks have been around so long that it seems forever.  Didn't NYS&W run them in the 1980s?  (A decade after E-L passed from the scene)

rantoul Wrote:
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 at some point why
> didn't the railroad companies install a uniform
> signal system at Pullman Junction?

Actually what was needed was an interlocking.
From what I heard it was the usual "who is going to pay
for what".  Also, for the C&WI to pay for a big project all the
owners had to agree on the expenditure. Those owners who 
did not go through Pullman Jct. were opposed to spending money
on something they were not going to use.  

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
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> cjvrr Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Double stacks were not invented until the early
> > 1980s.  Well after Lackawanna existed.  Also
> by
> > that time Conrail had removed most through
> freight
> > from the Lackawanna routes in NJ in favor of
> the
> > other lines.
> >
> > Double stacks would not clear the overhead
> wire. 
>
> That makes sense, that's why I asked about it in
> the context of west of Dover.
>
> Double stacks have been around so long that it
> seems forever.  Didn't NYS&W run them in the
> 1980s?  (A decade after E-L passed from the
> scene)

As for the DLW side on the cut off Roseville tunnel barely fit TOFC they had to center the track to do so.  So no even if the line was around (CR ripped the cut off out in 1984) stacks would not have been able to use the route with out major mods.  As noted above yes the Erie was the only route that initially cleared stacks I believe the first APL trains ran in 1984.  The NYSW secured the eatern leg of Sea Land in 1985 using the CSX to Pittsburg then B&P to Buffalo then D&H to Bighamton and on to NYSW initially haulage rights to Passaic Jct on the Erie then Trackage rights to Campbell Hall and LHR to NYSW proper at Sparta Jct that happend in late 1986.  Jeez all this from oversized tanks and roof appliances.  

pal77 Wrote:
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> Lackawanna484 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > cjvrr Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Double stacks were not invented until the
> early
> > > 1980s.  Well after Lackawanna existed. 
> Also
> > by
> > > that time Conrail had removed most through
> > freight
> > > from the Lackawanna routes in NJ in favor of
> > the
> > > other lines.
> > >
> > > Double stacks would not clear the overhead
> > wire. 
> >
> > That makes sense, that's why I asked about it
> in
> > the context of west of Dover.
> >
> > Double stacks have been around so long that it
> > seems forever.  Didn't NYS&W run them in the
> > 1980s?  (A decade after E-L passed from the
> > scene)
>
> As for the DLW side on the cut off Roseville
> tunnel barely fit TOFC they had to center the
> track to do so.  So no even if the line was
> around (CR ripped the cut off out in 1984) stacks
> would not have been able to use the route with out
> major mods.  As noted above yes the Erie was the
> only route that initially cleared stacks I believe
> the first APL trains ran in 1984.  The NYSW
> secured the eatern leg of Sea Land in 1985 using
> the CSX to Pittsburg then B&P to Buffalo then D&H
> to Bighamton and on to NYSW initially haulage
> rights to Passaic Jct on the Erie then Trackage
> rights to Campbell Hall and LHR to NYSW proper at
> Sparta Jct that happend in late 1986.  Jeez all
> this from oversized tanks and roof appliances.  

The EL addressed​ the clearance issues on the DL&W side in 1974. After that, anything that the EL wanted to route via Scranton would clear -TOFC, hi-cubes, racks, ECT. Even some of the Mahwah traffic was routed via the DL side.

Stacks were well into the future. The route would have need additional work for stacks. On the Port Jervis side, even with the Erie clearances​, Conrail had to work on the route for two domestic boxes.

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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/23/17 08:18 by NYSWSD70M.