Canadian Railroads > "Trains versus tomatoes" CP Arbutus corridor.

CP has posted No Trespassing notices along their Arbutus spur line which parallels Arbutus Avenue in Vancouver, and told their neighbours to get their gardens and other possessions off the property.

A brief history here. This line runs from New Westminster BC north west to False Creek in Vancouver. It was built by CP early in the last century, and was leased to the BC Electric Railway, an interurban line. BCER and later BC Hydro Railway operated this route as a passenger and freight interurban line (the Vancouver & Lulu Island Railway) BCER interurban passenger service was discontinued in the late 1950's, but freight (subsequently dieselised) continued into the 1980's.

Sometime in the years that BCE operated the V&LI for CP, power lines for electric power for homes and industry were added either side of the track.

BC Electric became BC Hydro when the Province of BC took control of the electric utility company.

Sometime in the 1980's, CP became aware that BC Hydro was paying a very low rent for the power line right of way along the Arbutus Line, and when an agreement could not be reached on fair compensation for the pole line right of way, CP cancelled the operating agreement between CP and BC Hydro to operate the spur.

CP crews and equipment replaced BC Hydro Railway crews and equipment on the Arbutus line. The pole lines remain, carrying electric power to a large portion of Vancouver.

Gradually, freight traffic on the Arbutus line dwindled away, and by the 1990's no more trains operated on the line. The tracks, however remained in place. Many times it was suggested that this would be a good LRT route, however Vancouver instead went for the "Canada Line" Skytrain route which tunnels deep under this part of Vancouver en route to the airport.

Meanwhile, Vancouver real estate values skyrocketed, and this vacant right of way has attracted all sorts of interest in development. CP and potential buyers have long haggled over the value of the "Arbutus Corridor".

Meanwhile, the lines neighbours have converted the weed grown rail line into a linear garden and informal hiking and biking trail.

The present management of CP takes a very dim view of this type of trespassing, and has promised to remove all gardens and prosecute anyone seen on the vacant tracks.

What I don't understand is why this is being touted as development property. Unless BC Hydro has plans to bury or relocate the twin power lines, this property involves a forty foot wide strip of land between two rows of power poles.

To add impetus to the argument for a linear park and biking trail, there are other Vancouver area linear parks built on abandoned BCE rights of way which CP did not own.

Vancouver values the land at $20 million, CP $100 million.

This battle was going on before EHH and will carry on after he leaves.

eminence_grise Wrote:
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> The present management of CP takes a very dim view
> of this type of trespassing, and has promised to
> remove all gardens and prosecute anyone seen on
> the vacant tracks.

And it moved into high gear today with back hoes and rail mounted dump trucks beginning to remove fences, trees, and encroaching gardens . . . it's too bad CP couldn't have waited three more weeks until all the fruit and veggies would have been harvested. But I think it was a deliberate move by CP to get the City to up their offer for the land . . . and they are only $60 million apart!

Craig

spdaylight Wrote:
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> eminence_grise Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The present management of CP takes a very dim
> view
> > of this type of trespassing, and has promised
> to
> > remove all gardens and prosecute anyone seen on
> > the vacant tracks.
>
> And it moved into high gear today with back hoes
> and rail mounted dump trucks beginning to remove
> fences, trees, and encroaching gardens . . .
> it's too bad CP couldn't have waited three more
> weeks until all the fruit and veggies would have
> been harvested. But I think it was a deliberate
> move by CP to get the City to up their offer for
> the land . . . and they are only $60 million
> apart!
>
> Craig

I guess if you are going to be a jerk be the biggest jerk you can be. My CP stock may be up more than what I would ever dreamed but it is hard to like the way CP Rail is ran under EHH. It pays to not be hated for doing things like this, especially when something bad happens. If CP Rail needs a favour from the city of Vancouver it will be interesting to see the outcome. Here are some pictures from a happier better CP Rail, in February 2008.
1) Looking south on the line in question.
2) Looking at a Rt 16 Arbutus trolleybus on Arbutus Ave. Yes, I was trespassing, along with a lot of other people.
3) Looking from Arbutus, the tracks are to the right of the trolleybus. It does give a nice open area along Arbutus.

Jim

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tq-07fan Wrote:
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> I guess if you are going to be a jerk be the
> biggest jerk you can be. My CP stock may be up
> more than what I would ever dreamed but it is hard
> to like the way CP Rail is ran under EHH. It pays
> to not be hated for doing things like this,
> especially when something bad happens. If CP Rail
> needs a favour from the city of Vancouver it will
> be interesting to see the outcome.

EHH doesn't care ... he will be long-gone from CP by the time the railway needs a favour from Vancouver.
Right now, he is doing everything possible to increase CP's profits to enhance his personal compensation package.
If he can force the city to increase their offer ... he benefits personally. As for the future ... who cares?

Will MacKenzie
Dundas, ON

Sadly, $$$ has no conscience...

eminence grise wrote: "Gradually, freight traffic on the Arbutus line dwindled away, and by the 1990's no more trains operated on the line."

Actually, regular revenue service to the remaining customer at the very north end of the line, Molson Brewery, continued until June 1, 2001.

This order to "get off our land" reminds me of a similar order issued by VIA Rail a few years ago regarding the Chatham Sub. near Windsor. Over the years many property owners encroached on VIA's right-of-way by planting gardens, building sheds, storing things, etc. VIA had increased the speed limit along that line and was concerned about trespassers being so close to the track. (It's hard to believe some VIA trains have actually run faster in the last few years; most are slower than they were in the last century.) There was much gnashing of teeth about this by those who had gotten away with it, but eventually most accepted that it was VIA's property.

I have heard that Molson finds the trucking of inbound bulk ingredients expensive and would like to have inbound carload service resumed if the price is reasonable. But I wonder if a modest-sized high-rent-district brewery is all that long for this world.

Best regards,

Rob L.

Al Beaton cartoon from the Vancouver Province 1956...if the shoe fits;)

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Rob L. wrote:

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>I have heard that Molson finds the trucking of inbound bulk ingredients expensive and would like to have inbound carload service resumed if the price is reasonable. But I wonder if a modest-sized >high-rent-district brewery is all that long for this world.

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The rumour at the time was that CP persuaded Molson to give up direct rail shipment, so that CP could stop operating the line. CP still gets the rail haul of the malted barley. The hoppers are set out at Columbia Elevators on the Vancouver waterfront (near station namesign Renfrew) and trucked from there. The trucks have two hopper trailers that unload in exactly the same way as a hopper railcar, so Molson could continue to use its existing unloading system.

I wouldn't count on Molson leaving anytime soon (it's been there since 1954, IIRC). Canadian interprovincial trade laws were modified sometime in the 1990s so that a brewer such as Molson no longer had to brew its product in a given province in order to sell in that province. As soon as that happened, the big three factory breweries began to centralize production at their most efficient plants across Canada. It didn't take long before Carling O'Keefe (formerly served by the Arbutus Line) and Labatt (served by BN/BNSF until closure) left B.C. altogether. Molson, on the other hand, uses the Vancouver brewery to produce two big sellers -- Canadian and Coors Light -- for Western Canada. There's nothing "modest-sized" about it.

My office for 25 years overlooked the Molson brewery and the former BCER Kitsilano Shops yard and I've witnessed some of the improvements Molson made in that time. In the early 1990s, Molson got the licence to produce Japanese Kirin beer for North America and had four large silos brought in by barge to nearby False Creek for that purpose. I don't see it walking away from such investments.

As for Molson's neighbours, the Kits shops area has reverted to its official status as an Indian Reserve after CP lifted the shops trackage in 1989, leaving only the mainline and run-around track for the O Yard switcher to service Molson. A tug-of-war over the land's ownership ensued, with CP, the feds and the natives all claiming it. The battle went to the Supreme Court of Canada, with the natives winning. It belongs to the Squamish First Nation, which has developed very elaborate plans for high-density commercial and residential buildings. The City isn't happy about it, which makes me :) on general principles, but it can't "pull a CP" on the natives by zoning the land to suit the City's wishes, for the simple reason that Indian Reserves are exempt from municipal jurisdiction.

To prove their point, the artist's conceptions of these buildings include some that overhang the east side of the Burrard Bridge, cantilever-style. On the west side of the bridge, also part of the reserve, the natives erected one of those massive electronic billboards aimed at southbound motorists. The City was really pissed about that -- more :) from me -- but recognizes there's nothing it can do about it.

Molson's neighbour on the other (south) side is a Canadian Forces armoury, so the brewery has good company as a functional building that doesn't conform to the stylish pretences of west-side Vancouverites.

The northern 0.25 miles of the Marpole Spur (Arbutus Line) are on the reserve and CP does not include it in its proposals for redevelopment. You'll notice the survey that CP did recently to demarcate the enroachments stopped at Mile 0.28, on the other (south) side of the crossing at West First Avenue. Some of the track on the reserve is still visible, but much is buried under mounds of dirt, as the area was used for parking hundreds of VIP vehicles that were part of the official 2010 Olympics fleet.

An online poll conducted today by Vancouver's largest TV news outlet found 81% of respondents favouring CP and 19% supporting the gardeners. Comments from those siding with CP boiled down to this simple message to the gardeners -- "It's private property and not yours to squat on. You've been warned for years that this would happen."

Vancouver's Mayor Moonbeam is again misreading public opinion. Here's hoping he'll pay for it with his job in the coming elections. Among other things, that would save some important road arteries into the city centre, which he intends to demolish in order to pander to his main constituency, the bicyclist.

Jim ,If you don't like the way C P is being run under EHH then why don`t you take a stand and back up back up your words by selling your C P stock . NO! oh you couldn't do that you say, then quit being two faced and be quiet. I have 900 shares and he`s doing a great job.,CP owns the land so take it back. By the way, this squabble between C P and the garden people was going on long before H H ever showed up on the scene. CP is right now probably the best run railroad in N A and improving every day. No wonder they extended his contract another year.

bayview_boy Wrote:
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> Jim ,If you don't like the way C P is being run
> under EHH then why don`t you take a stand and back
> up back up your words by selling your C P stock .
> NO! oh you couldn't do that you say, then quit
> being two faced and be quiet. I have 900 shares
> and he`s doing a great job.,CP owns the land so
> take it back. By the way, this squabble between C
> P and the garden people was going on long before H
> H ever showed up on the scene. CP is right now
> probably the best run railroad in N A and
> improving every day. No wonder they extended his
> contract another year.

bayview_boy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Jim ,If you don't like the way C P is being run
> under EHH then why don`t you take a stand and back
> up back up your words by selling your C P stock .
> NO! oh you couldn't do that you say, then quit
> being two faced and be quiet. I have 900 shares
> and he`s doing a great job.,CP owns the land so
> take it back. By the way, this squabble between C
> P and the garden people was going on long before H
> H ever showed up on the scene. CP is right now
> probably the best run railroad in N A and
> improving every day. No wonder they extended his
> contract another year.

I only have 25 shares. No immediate plan on selling but if I have to I'm not going to hold onto them for sentimental value. Probably won't sell them as I bought them back CP Limited split and it is a pain in the bum to figure out how much they originally cost when figuring taxes as I found when I sold my Fording Coal stock several years ago.

I don't know how CP is now but it was one of the best railways to test when I was on Sperry Rail Service back in the mid nineties. We worked a lot of overtime and we worked six days a week but we treated great by EVERYONE on CP Rail. For the most part it just seamed like people liked working at CP Rail then, moral was high. Now that people are laid off, possibly even some of the people I dealt with in the yard offices and on maintenance of way I wonder how moral on CP is?

Sorry I disturbed you bayview boy. From prior posts you seam to be a huge fan of HH, obviously your 900 shares of CP going through the roof may have helped to form your opinion. I did not know the garden thing had been going on so long, just seamed like bad PR for CP to me. I'll be quite now.

Jim

tq-07fan Wrote:
>
> I don't know how CP is now but it was one of the
> best railways to test when I was on Sperry Rail
> Service back in the mid nineties. We worked a lot
> of overtime and we worked six days a week but we
> treated great by EVERYONE on CP Rail. For the most
> part it just seamed like people liked working at
> CP Rail then, moral was high. Now that people are
> laid off, possibly even some of the people I dealt
> with in the yard offices and on maintenance of way
> I wonder how moral on CP is?
>
> Jim


How is moral at CP you ask? As an employee of CP, and talking to and listen to many other fellow employees from all over CP in both Canada and the US, especially train & engine service employees, and shop staff employees, and some staff at the main Ogden office, moral is in the toilet and at the lowest and worst its ever been, especially for the past 2 or so years.