Canadian Railroads > Rocky Mountainer to Whistler, Thomas in Squamish

RMR's first Whistler Sea to Sky train of the season ran on Friday, May 15. Judging from RMR's recently published 2016 schedule, this appears to be the Whistler train's last season, so see it or ride it while you still can.
1. The first southbound train rolls through Britannia Beach.
2. After unloading passengers in North Vancouver, 8013 pushes its train around the wye.
3. On May 16, another passenger train was running: the West Coast Railway Museum's Thomas train. Doing the actual work was former Waterloo St. Jacobs FP9 6520, soon to be restored to CN colours. Here it is in Squamish.

Loleta Fernbridge

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Always loved those original CN and CP colors....very elegant
Brian

That 2nd image is a 1st Class knock-out! Tomorrow's IOTD, I hope...

Lance

Great stuff!!  makes me homesick.  Doug

So is RMR keeping the North Vancouver to Whistler route or discontinuing the Whistler-Quesnel-Prince George-Jasper route? Both have had their share of cutbacks.

Wasn't it part of the deal when BCR sold the line to CN that some sort of passenger rail be operated on the line? RMR could just run select North Vancouver - Whistler - Quesnel - Jasper train (once a week on a Thursday?). I know VIA bid on the old BCR passenger rail route, but RMR promised the moon and stars. I am surprised actually that RMR renewed their first contract with CN a few years back..........it was speculated that it wouldn't be.

At the time, I was hoping VIA would have gotten the BCR passenger rail route from North Vancouver to Prince George and sort of operated a traingular route. VIA was going to operate so it would benefit BC residents and tour groups. VIA had the BCR Panaroma cars to put in service - and even Glen Fraser and the tail end car, which hasn't turned a wheel since they bought it.

jp1822 Wrote:
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> So is RMR keeping the North Vancouver to Whistler
> route or discontinuing the Whistler-Quesnel-Prince
> George-Jasper route?

It appears they're doing neither: the 2016 schedule (see RMR's website) shows them keeping the Whistler-Quesnel-Prince George-Jasper train ("Rain Forest to Gold Rush") but eliminating the North Van - Whistler run.

- L.F.

Good images LF...

A good weekend of fun...one more time this weekend I understand.

611.

loleta Wrote:
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> jp1822 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > So is RMR keeping the North Vancouver to
> Whistler
> > route or discontinuing the
> Whistler-Quesnel-Prince
> > George-Jasper route?
>
> It appears they're doing neither: the 2016
> schedule (see RMR's website) shows them keeping
> the Whistler-Quesnel-Prince George-Jasper train
> ("Rain Forest to Gold Rush") but eliminating the
> North Van - Whistler run.

The North Vancouver to Whistler segment is being added to the Whistler-Quesnel-Jasper trip in 2016. Overnight stops will be in Whistler and Quesnel.

These changes coincide with the expiry of the original 10-year agreement between Rocky Mountaineer and CN, which included a five-year renewal clause. It appears Rocky no longer wanted to pay for track access between North Van and Whistler five days a week. Presumably, this was not generating sufficient return.

When the North Van - Whistler train was started in 2006, special discount deals were advertised locally for B.C. residents, to put more bums in seats. At the time, these were presented as something that would only be available for the first season. Instead, such deals have been offered in each of the 10 seasons the train has operated, which suggests that Rocky never succeeded in gaining sufficient business from the intended market, namely out-of-province visitors, especially those stopping in Vancouver at either end of an Alaska sea cruise.

jp1822 Wrote:
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> Wasn't it part of the deal when BCR sold the line
> to CN that some sort of passenger rail be operated
> on the line? RMR could just run select North
> Vancouver - Whistler - Quesnel - Jasper train
> (once a week on a Thursday?). I know VIA bid on
> the old BCR passenger rail route, but RMR promised
> the moon and stars. I am surprised actually that
> RMR renewed their first contract with CN a few
> years back..........it was speculated that it
> wouldn't be.

No, that was not part of the deal. What was included was a provision that CN invite bids from tourist train operators. The tender document was publicly available and actually included within CN's contract with the Province (I have a copy).

The tender actually went out shortly before the sale of CN was closed. It was a joint BCR-CN tender, with the BCR part covering North Van - Prince George and the CN part covering Prince George - Jasper. In theory, if another railway had won BCR, this could still have gone ahead with two different host railways. With CN winning BCR, that became academic.

There were seven initial bidders, which was whittled down to a short list of two -- Rocky Mountaineer and Whistler Rail Tours. VIA was not a bidder. Rather, it would have staffed the trains under contract if WRT had won the competition, but the business decisions would have been made by WRT. By staffed, I mean that VIA would have provided the on-board service crews (not engine crews). Also, it would have integrated the service into its reservation system.

These would still have been tourist trains. WRT was backed by two prominent figures in the local tourism business with a strong involvement in the cruise ship business and plans to build a resort lodge at Whistler. The latter was actually done -- it's the Nita Lake Lodge, into which the station used by Rocky is integrated, so it appears the WRT principals and Rocky have kissed and made up.
 

Collective agreements still apply on the BC Rail portions of the RMR trains, ie: all trains operated on BC Rail territory will be operated by BC Rail employees. It'll be awhile yet before BC Rail employees become extinct. When the RMR first started between Whistler and Jasper, I heard that CN was charging $60 thousand dollars per trip for operating on CN trackage including crew costs etc. Never was able to confirm that figure.   Doug

hoggerdoug Wrote:
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> Collective agreements still apply on the BC Rail
> portions of the RMR trains, ie: all trains
> operated on BC Rail territory will be operated by
> BC Rail employees. It'll be awhile yet before BC
> Rail employees become extinct. When the RMR first
> started between Whistler and Jasper, I heard that
> CN was charging $60 thousand dollars per trip for
> operating on CN trackage including crew costs etc.
> Never was able to confirm that figure.   Doug

I am not sure how much CN was charging the RMR, but I do know it was reported and boasted to be a LOT! I was on one of the first, if not the inaugural run, of the Jasper-Quesnel-Whistler train. We were one of 6 people that were in Gold Leaf class on this particular run in the first year it was launched. This was also when CN was heavily upgrading the line between Jasper and Prince George and we were put in tne sidings pretty often at the start of the journey. Then a service manager reported it to RMR headquarters and we seemed to have "gotten the railroad" after that! I think that is somewhat notorious with RMR train operations if delays start to happen.

My last trip on this route was actually the reverse from Whistler to Jasper via Quesnel. I was expecting something similiar to my first trip. Well, boy was I in for a surprise! It was a PACKED train in Gold Leaf. I believe this was around 2009. I was told that this was the more "popular direction."

Not sure what the current traffic is, but since it only runs one day a week, I presume it has really not caught on as a "popular route" like some other RMR routes.

Too bad that they are discontinuing the more regular route from North Vancouver to Whistler (and return). I am not sure if it ever picked up as a "day-trip train" even though it was mean to be. It just left too late in the am (or not quick enough like the former BCR Budds in speed from North Vancouver to Whistler) and then too early back from Whistler to North Vancouver. Again trip times were made longer for the RMR to Whistler, even though there were no stops like BCR had with their Budds. I always thought a stop in Squamish - of some sort - would have been worth while. 

RMR officials lobbied hard to get the bid from CN - going to town to town in BC - and even stating they weren't going to be stopping at any of the communities like the BCR Budds did. I don't know how RMR was going to garner support from local BC residents to get them to use the train at least from North Vancouver to Whistler. As much as RMR was upfront about their "operations" over the BCR route, I am not sure it ever really sank in to some along the route that his was not going to be a BC Passenger Rail. That train left the station.   

All in all, be it through Whistler Rail Tours or what have you, VIA was involved indirectly in trying to win the bid on this route.

It truly is a gem of a rail journey - I will say that! I think if I ever took the route again, it would be Jasper - Quesnel - Whistler/North Vancouver.

And VIA's Panorama car operating on the train to Prince Rupert (travelling along the same route as the RMR from Jasper to Prince George) certainly gives RMR a run for their money. This was a GREAT route for VIA to operate these cars on. It's too bad a second doesn't exist to offer it on all departures!!!! I sure hope VIA is marketing this train with its Panorama Car to travel companies. But in order to do so, VIA's got to be consistent in its operation of this train. Winter operations are for reliability are more to be desired.