Canadian Railroads > BC Rail "Tumbler sub" long ago

A few images I took early 1985 during a stint in Tumbler Ridge on the pushers.  Doug
Some of these maybe re-posts, slowly starting to scan and organize a bunch of slides.
first three of a southbound passing "Teck Loadout"  a mis-mash of power on the headend.

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three more of the same train, no pushers yet on the tailend. Coal silos were massive, held enough to load a train, in excess of 9,800 tons.

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three more taken from the cab of a pusher. We had three SD40's in notch 9 pushing 98 loads and two electric units in warp 9 on the head end. I always wondered what would happen to the caboose if the over head electric went off line, lead electric units shut down and the three pushers still in run 8.  The cabooses were modified for the coal branch and to have pushers pushing on them. Crews had to ride the pusher units as a safety measure, "just in case". Image 09 you can see the whole train on the mountain side, lead units are just slightly left of centre of the image. It was a gloomy winter afternoon.  I'll post more slides at a later date.  Thanks for looking.  Doug

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Really great stuff!

Yukon Yeti
 

Front door to "Yukon Yeti" home???    Doug

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Only if he is pantograph equipped :)

KC

Fantastic! Doesn't matter if any are re-posts Doug, BCR content is always great to see.

I read once there was a natural "wind tunnel" effect that cleared the Table / Wolverine tunnels of diesel smoke. Any truth to that, or was it a two-stroke (diesel) fume laden ride through the bores on the pushers?

Mike N.

The 2nd image with 6002 on the head-end  is a keeper.
You would not see that power line-up repeated in too many locations.
A great "Classic BC Rail" photo.

611

Ventilation in the tunnels was to be of natural air movement, it did not work very well. In the original  engineering design of the Tumbler sub, fan forced ventilation of the tunnels was considered and found to be cost prohibitive, one of the reasons the line was decided to be electrified, tunnel ventilation would not be needed. It could be very hot and smokey in the tunnels with diesel locomotives in the consist. Generally there was lots of time between trains for the air to clear, although sometimes the pusher crew would wait for 20 or 30 minutes before re-entering the tunnel after a push involving diesels. During certain weather conditions it took longer for the exhaust to clear and on some occasions fog would develop in the tunnels. All trains were equipped with SCBA packs(self contained breathing apparatus) for each crew member and it was required to train with these packs and other safety requirements prior to working on the Tumbler sub. The air packs had about twenty minutes of air, which really is not much time to stumble your way out of the tunnels in the event of an emergency, derailment or fire. Fortunately I never experienced the need to use the air pack.   Doug

I made a trip up to Tumbler Ridge a month or so before the line opened.  At that time, GMD was testing the electrics. 

The contractors who built the line were just packing up, and I joined them for a coffee in a trackside portable office. On the wall was a very large and somewhat damaged map which showed a proposed rail route around one of the tunnels.

The contractors said that when they struck an underground spring while driving one of the long tunnels, serious consideration was given to abandoning the tunnel and using a surface route. This route would have followed a nearby valley and would not have added elevation to the route. Finally, it was decided that the underground water could be contained by the trackside ditches in the tunnel.

Just skimmed over Tim J. Horton's "British Columbia Railway Vol. 2" It states three routes for the Tumbler Sub. were surveyed, including an all surface route which would have required extensive snow sheds. The tunneling was estimated to offset the cost of extensive snow sheds on a surface route. Makes one wonder if operation / maintenance of a surface route would have been less costly and encountered less problems in the long run. The difficulties of tunnel ops would not have been encountered. Of course other issues would arise as they always do.... that is my pessimistic A.M.E. way of looking at things.

I suppose the projected increase in diesel fuel costs affected the decision to electrify quite a bit. My understanding is that the price of oil dropped, and was one of the reasons the projected savings were not realized.

It is kind of the opposite of what transpired with the Milwaukee Road's electrification. It ended it's electric operations and the cost of fuel increased substantially. BCR decided to electrify, and fuel costs dropped.

 

Doug, I was up there just after the line opened and recall going through the loadout during a cab ride.  I recall a hand written sign before going through which may have been written by someone with a comical bent or else written by a Swede, to "put your Pants down".  Of course this was in reference to not losing the pantographs on the low hanging loading shute.  During the testing there were reps from GMD and Sweden whose technology was in the GF6C's.  Rikk Campbell,the Hogger I befriended up there, told me it was written by one of the Swedish technicians.

Also, with regards to the Spring that Phil mentioned, I believe they refered to that tunnel as "the carwash".  When I went through it there was an immense sheet of water that we passed through. 

Rick

Yes, well actually "put your pants down" was created by two  Hoggers doing some testing at one of the load outs.  It was tricky, electric units with train in tow, coast up to the silo, "drop the pantographs" coast through the silo, raise the pans and stop. You had to get at least one unit through the silo to be able to raise the pantograph.  Anyhow one of the hoggers involved was "Paul" from Brazil, he had quite a pronounced accent. During this testing he kept calling on the radio to "Bill"....... Drop your pants. With the Latino accent the "pantographs"  became pants. Needless to say anyone within radio range heard, drop your pants numerous times during this testing at the silo. Sometimes the truth is better than fiction.

Table tunnel had the "car wash".  Wolverine tunnel had the "slime" growing on the walls and the horrible smell. The slime was actually a primitive type of bacteria that enjoyed the environment in the tunnels including the diesel exhaust. As a by-product the bacteria gave off some form of sulphide gas that could be lethal in high concentration. The "gas" severely corroded the copper cantenary wires. Eventually the wires in the tunnel were replaced, if I recall correctly, with aluminum.   Doug
rschonfelder Wrote:
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> Doug, I was up there just after the line opened
> and recall going through the loadout during a
> cab ride.  I recall a hand written sign before
> going through which may have been written by
> someone with a comical bent or else written by a
> Swede, to "put your Pants down".  Of course this
> was in reference to not losing the pantographs on
> the low hanging loading shute.  During the
> testing there were reps from GMD and Sweden whose
> technology was in the GF6C's.  Rikk Campbell,the
> Hogger I befriended up there, told me it was
> written by one of the Swedish technicians.
>
> Also, with regards to the Spring that Phil
> mentioned, I believe they refered to that tunnel
> as "the carwash".  When I went through it there
> was an immense sheet of water that we passed
> through. 
>
> Rick



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/29/15 03:56 by hoggerdoug.

Classic story.  I have that sign photographed somewhere but I really wanted to stand beside the sign, hang a moon and get someone to take the photograph .  However, I was travelling alone and just could not picture myself setting up the camera on a tripod and somehow get caught on the property in such a moment.

Rick

I believe CN is still operating to/from at least one of the mines on the Tumbler Sub. Do today's CN crews have SCBAs on board?

LF

I don't have a current employee timetable,  but the CN time table 12 shows the Tumbler sub requirements for each crew member to have a "self-rescue breathing system" prior to departing Prince George. Also each crew is to have one gas detector for nitrogen dioxide and carbon monoxide levels.  There is a full page of requirements and precautions while operating in the Table and Wolverine tunnels.
It would be interesting to see the precautions for tunnel operations on other railways, example Spiral tunnel on CP. Wondering if all the precautions on the BC Rail Tumbler sub are in place account there is no forced ventilation as compared to other long tunnels that have forced ventilation. Perhaps "eminence grise" can add to this.   Doug
loleta Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I believe CN is still operating to/from at least
> one of the mines on the Tumbler Sub. Do today's CN
> crews have SCBAs on board?
>
> LF



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/30/15 03:36 by hoggerdoug.

> It would be interesting to see the precautions for
> tunnel operations on other railways, example
> Spiral tunnel on CP. Wondering if all the
> precautions on the BC Rail Tumbler sub are in
> place account there is no forced ventilation as
> compared to other long tunnels that have forced
> ventilation. Perhaps "eminence grise" can add to
> this.   Doug

IIRC timetable special instructions require the possession of SCBAs on the Mountain Sub due to the big tunnels there. I don't recall if there is a similar requirement for the Spiral Tunnels.

Darren Boes
Lethbridge, AB
Southern Alberta Railfan