Canadian Railroads > Remote goes Rogue in Canada

Interesting run away incident at CN's McMillian Yard in the Canada involving a remote control train of 72 loads and two empties. Train ran away from the yard for 5 kilometers at speeds up to 29mph before stalling on a grade. Report mentions that a crew member was stranded on train. I wonder if remotes used elsewhere can also lose control like this?

http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/toronto/74-runaway-cn-rail-cars-rolled-5-kms-out-of-gta-yard-tsb-says-1.3656452

Ted Curphey
Ontario, OR

I guess since the "crew member stranded onboard" didn't pull the air, they must have been riding on the cut of cars, and not the locomotive?

trainjunkie Wrote:
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> I guess since the "crew member stranded onboard"
> didn't pull the air, they must have been riding on
> the cut of cars, and not the locomotive?

Perhaps they didn't have the air cut in on the cars or an insufficient amount of air cut in and the beltpack units couldn't provide enough braking power on their own..........if the employee was riding the cut of cars, one can place the consist in emergency from the beltpack control box.......

Locotrol2 

 

Info I saw elsewhere, it was a fairly new and inexperienced belt pack crew with a cut of cars about 9,000 tons. Not sure it they had air cut in on any of the cars.  Doug

Doug, read the same thing on a rail labor forum. New crew, 72 loads, no air. Rule is 10 cars of air minimum. Apparently it just got away from them. No RCO conspiracy. Just inexperience.

trainjunkie Wrote:
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> Doug, read the same thing on a rail labor forum.
> New crew, 72 loads, no air. Rule is 10 cars of air
> minimum. Apparently it just got away from them. No
> RCO conspiracy. Just inexperience.

Yep, but I will tell you these new kids are great with the belt pack, a wonderful new "game" to play, just like they don't wear a watch, "what for" I can get the time on my cell phone!!!  Sadly they have no idea of the tonnage and braking ratio involved in these heavy cuts they are moving and the potential involved. Then again, years ago, I was going on duty 0600 and arrived at the yard office and the night yard power / crew was parked in front of the yard office and the young foreman was sure glad to see me, young kid was damn near in tears. I thought somebody had been hurt or there had been a derailment, NO, he had forgotten the keypad code to get into the yard office. Duh.   Doug

hoggerdoug Wrote:
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> Info I saw elsewhere, it was a fairly new and
> inexperienced belt pack crew with a cut of cars
> about 9,000 tons. Not sure it they had air cut in
> on any of the cars.  Doug

This entire story just does not pass the smell test.

Anyone who has operated (...OR  instructed hundreds of new-hire employees, as I have) remote control locomotives knows full well the units are designed, both here and in Canada, for Yard-Only Operation. There are STOP PUCKS located well before the DERAILS at the entrance/exit to different yard areas that will disable AND STOP the locomotive prior to even FOULING the Main Line until an Operator does certain security-sensitive adjustments to the controls INSIDE THE LOCOMOTIVE.

The original story in the Canadian press claimed this "incident" happened almost two weeks ago.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/74-runaway-cn-rail-cars-rolled-5-km-out-of-gta-yard-tsb-says-1.3656452

That original story also claimed there was a crew member "...stranded aboard" the locomotive.

Sorry, guys - this "incident" would have been ALL OVER the US media, thanks to the unions - IF IT ACTUALLY OCCURRED !

Plowhandle Wrote:
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> Sorry, guys - this "incident" would have been ALL
> OVER the US media, thanks to the unions - IF IT
> ACTUALLY OCCURRED !

??? Stop pucks do nothing if the locomotive can't hold back the tonnage on its own. There were at least 72 loads. There was no air cut in, cars were bled off. Tonnage shoved locomotive right out of the RCO zone. Not the first time it's happened. It's a black eye on labor which might explain why they are silent on this. Not rocket science.

Absolute NONSENSE.

"Stop pucks do nothing..." ?

DERAILS PROTECTING MAIN LINES SURELY DO !

Please post a link to this alleged "other information" you claim you've acquired, or stop blowing smoke about a subject you obviously don't know much about.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/30/16 14:39 by Plowhandle.

I got the info from someone who works in that terminal. If that isn't good enough, I guess you'll have to wait for the TSB investigation report, which we'll probably never see since this "never happened". BTW, they HAD a light to enter the main. They just couldn't stop. Derail would have been down. Bye, bye train.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/30/16 15:08 by trainjunkie.

Please explain what is and what it does "stop puck"   Doug

Doug, more here on stop pucks... http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?1,2300412

A plastic puck (about six inches long, three inches wide, one and a half inch thick) bolted to the center of a tie well within the "clear" of a track that wants to remain free of remote control locomotive movements...called remote control "zones" in Union Pacific parlance. When the locomotive passes over these pucks, they remotely stop the locomotive and a crew member has to enter the control cab and perform safety-sensitive adjustments to the controls before the move can be continued.

These are mostly used when both members of the two-man remote crew would be performing work on the rear (opposite end from the locomotive) of the consist of cars and are using a track as a "runner" for "head room" so they can move cars they are next to to different track destinations.

Stop pucks!! interesting concept if the locomotive brakes alone can control or stop the movement. In the incident discussed, 9,000 or so tons, I don't think the engine brakes were up to the task.  Doug

hoggerdoug Wrote:
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> Stop pucks!! interesting concept if the locomotive
> brakes alone can control or stop the movement. In
> the incident discussed, 9,000 or so tons, I don't
> think the engine brakes were up to the task. 
> Doug

Once again, let me state for the benefit of you fanboys that are not at all familiar with the physical plants of major railroad terminals - FIXED DERAILS also protect Main Lines from unauthorized, errant yard movements.

They have DERAILS in Canada as well.

I'm not talking silly, untested theories here, but fact.

And please feel free to post any links to follow-up articles to this Tale That Never Happened.

Plowhandle Wrote:
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<snip>

Do you have problems writing anything in conventional fonts?

Ray

Link to the TSB and the investigation that has started: http://www.tsb.gc.ca/eng/medias-media/deploiement-deployment/rail/2016/20160628.asp  It would seem they were lined out on the maintrack by the RTC, so any derail would be in the non-derailing position.
According to "Plowhandle" this event never occured.  Wonder where he gets his info from??
Doug

hoggerdoug Wrote:
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> Stop pucks!! interesting concept if the locomotive
> brakes alone can control or stop the movement. In
> the incident discussed, 9,000 or so tons, I don't
> think the engine brakes were up to the task. 
> Doug

Pullback protection (provided it's enabled), should atleast put the engine in emergency if it went outside it's zone. Wouldn't nessecarily help against 9000 tons though.

You're not too familiar with remote control locomotives, remote control rules, or operational guidelines relative to protection of Main Lines, are you ?

Plowhandle Wrote:
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> You're not too familiar with remote control
> locomotives, remote control rules, or operational
> guidelines relative to protection of Main Lines,
> are you ?

Two points:

1 When it comes to Canadian railroading, I will defer to the comments made by Canadian railroaders, such as hoggerdoug.
2 Why are you yelling? Are you incapable to even considering other points of view and have to shout down everyone else? Your attitude and approach are what many of us Canadians find offensive about some residents of the United States.

 

Will MacKenzie
Dundas, ON