Canadian Railroads > F-unit Friday under the wire

In the spring of 1973 a Montreal-bound commuter train rolls through Portal Heights on the CN's Mount Royal Tunnel electric line.  Behind the FP9A is a string of heavyweight commuter cars.

Ken Goslett

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With no electric motive power, was this a train from Grenville?

Michael

Mberry Wrote:
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> With no electric motive power, was this a train
> from Grenville?
>
> Michael

Yes.  It was the Grenville train.

KG

Interesting to see a baggage car on a commuter train.

What function did that baggage car serve on a commuter train?

I assume the unit would be set to idle and just coast down through the tunnel into Gare Centrale without the help of an electric hauler?

ghCBNS Wrote:
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> I assume the unit would be set to idle and just
> coast down through the tunnel into Gare Centrale
> without the help of an electric hauler?

CN's other diesel-powered trains that used the tunnel were the northern quebec ones. They were hauled by electric locomotives (in front of the idling diesel) outbound from Central Station, but, as you noted, usually drifted downgrade without the electric power when inbound.

Ray 

Ray_Murphy Wrote:
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> CN's other diesel-powered trains that used the
> tunnel were the northern quebec ones. They were
> hauled by electric locomotives (in front of the
> idling diesel) outbound from Central Station, but,
> as you noted, usually drifted downgrade without
> the electric power when inbound.


Here’s CN#73 to Chicoutimi.... deep in Gare Centrale back in February 1976. *6712 & *6714 were the ancient Electric Box Cabs that hauled the entire consist out of Gare Centrale through the 3 mile Mont Royal Tunnel. At Eastern Jct. the electrics cut off and returned down into Centrale. 6712 & 6714 had been in service since the Tunnel opened in Oct. 1918 and were actually still hauling commuter trains nearly 80 years later on the last day of operation in June 1995. The Mont Royal Tunnel (now AMT’s electric Deux Montagnes line) reopened later that year using new Bombardier Electric Multiple Units.

*6712 Electric Box Cab
*6714 Electric Box Cab
6787 MLW FPA-4
6636 GMD F-9B
9332 Baggage
1815 ALANDALE (8 Sec. 2 Comp 1 DR) Heavyweight Sleeper – Build 1923
1087 CAPE BRETON (2 Bdr. 2 Comp. Buffet Lounge)
5227 Coach
5298 Coach (Set off at Arvida)
5187 Coach (Set off at Jonquiere)
5287 Coach (To #75 at Hervey Jct)
431 Dinette (To #75 at Hervey Jct)
1807 CAMPBELLTON (8 Sec. 2 Comp 1 DR) (To #75 at Hervey Jct)

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Another interesting operation was the xCP Trois Rivieres - Quebec City trains after they started using Gare Centrale instead of Gare Windsor: A single RDC unit would be hauled by an electric box-cab out through the tunnel. I only rode outbound to Quebec City.....did the inbound RDCs also drift down through the tunnel or were they hauled?

With the tunnel on a descending grade toward Central Station there was never any need for elecric haulers in that direction.  Common practice was to wind up the diesels leaving Montreal Royal, build up a good head of speed and then shut the throttle to idle and coast down through the tunnel.

KG

The_Chief_Way Wrote:
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> What function did that baggage car serve on a
> commuter train?

​The Grenville train was a Friday night out to Grenville, Sunday afternoon back operation. It functioned as a commuter train as far as Deux Montagnes, and then as a "camper special" for people who had weekend cottages and camps beyond the commuter district.The baggage car carried supplies to the cottages. Apparently, there was a Deadhead move back on Friday to Montreal, and the Sunday Grenville-Montreal train was a baggage car and one or two coaches.

"Camper" trains existed in several places in Canada. City dwellers would build a camp or cottage outside the city, the family would live there all summer during the school holidays and dad would work in the city during the week. I suspect that the Grenville camper was a middle class operation, while the wealthy campers for over a century went to Metis Beach, far down the St.Lawrence River near Matane QC. They could choose between a river steamer or a CN overnight train.

​This route was part of the original Canadian Northern transcontinental route via Ottawa, however much was abandoned soon after Canadian National took over. The Canadian Northern bridge over the Ottawa river seems to have been removed soon after nationalisation, making me wonder if it had structural problems and rather than replace it, the route was abandoned.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/23/16 10:43 by eminence_grise.

You certainly rattled the cage with your F-unit Friday this week!  Great photo of something that appears to be ordinary but is quite the opposite.  This train was the first of many "last run" trains that I got to ride.  I had just started college, was living on my own and had a part-time job leaving me bit of spare coin to go and ride trains.  A group of us left Ottawa on a relatively mild January day for Montrèal in order to ride last train to Grenville. Someone in the group had arranged for us to be picked by car to bring us back to Ottawa.

​Photo 1: Last train ticket and envelope signed by the crew, January 9th, 1975

​Photo 2: Last set of trainorders for our train.

​As KG already noted, all the trains were hauled by electrics out Central Station, through the tunnel to Eastern Junction, even a single RDC.  Inbound trains coasted through the tunnel to their assigned platform at Central Station.

​Photo 3:  Inbound VIA 170 coasting in to its final destination Montrèal's Central Station, photo taken at Mont Royal, QC. September 11, 1984.

​Photo 4: On a cold Dec 26th,1984 morning, CN 6725 is running around a single RDC I was taking to Quebec City moments after hauling me through the Mont Royal tunnel. (see next post for photo)

eminence_grise Wrote:
> ​This route was part of the original Canadian
> Northern transcontinental route via Ottawa,
> however much was abandoned soon after Canadian
> National took over. The Canadian Northern bridge
> over the Ottawa river seems to have been removed
> soon after nationalization, making me wonder if it
> had structural problems and rather than replace
> it, the route was abandoned.

The Ottawa to Hawkesbury section of the Canadian Northern line was abandoned by CN in 1940.  Passenger service over the line ended in June of 1932 and but freight service hung on for another eight years.  I understand that the steel was lifted in 1941 due to the war effort.   The bridge to Hawkesbury stayed in service until 1962.  My ETT dated June 14, 1959 shows one pair of 1st class trains coming off the Montfort sub and running over the Grenville sub to Hawkesbury.   The bridge was removed because of Hydro Quebec's Carillon hydroelectric dam project, resulting in a 9 foot higher water level at Grenville, QC and Hawkesbury, ON.

Gerry Gaugl
​Ottawa ON



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/24/16 05:43 by moonliter.

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CN Eastern Junction. Montrèal, QC

Gerry Gaugl
Ottawa ON

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One Friday evening a group of Montreal fans rode the Grenville train all the way to Grenville.  If I remember correctly, we talked the crew into letting us ride the deadhead back to Central Station.  Otherwise we would have been stuck in Grenville.

What was the frequency of the Grenville train?  Was it a Friday evening out, Sunday evening in?  Or was it Friday evening out, Monday morning in?  Or did it run every weekday evening out and weekday morning in?

KG

Here’s the schedule for 1973.....nd a page from the employees timetable for Oct 26/75. The DH equipment left Central Station at 0330am for Grenville on Monday mornings but must have returned to Central on Fridays as an Extra.

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Trains were daily except Sunday in the summer ’68 timetable but fall ’68 were now a strange Wed & Sat to Grenville and a Thursday return to Montreal. But by Spring ’69….Fri to Grenville and Mon return.

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>
> ​The Grenville train was a Friday night out to
> Grenville, Sunday afternoon back operation.
>
The Grenville train never ran on a Sunday during the late 1960's and until it ended in January 1976.  It was always a Monday morning arrival in Montreal.

KG

Thanks ghCBNS for your input, I checked my tts and concur with your findings.  Your posting of the train's timetable introduces more questions about KG's wonderful photo...and that is, why the baggage car?  The small 1 (with the circle around it) next to the train #, denotes that this train has "no checked baggage".  So does this mean that the baggage car in KG's photo was used in express service for a shipper down the line?  If so, did the odd scheduling of the Weds-Sat-Thurs train not work for this shipper and thus the Friday out - Monday was chosen?

​Gerry Gaugl
​Ottawa ON

kgmontreal Wrote:
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> >
> > ​The Grenville train was a Friday night out
> to
> > Grenville, Sunday afternoon back operation.
> >
> The Grenville train never ran on a Sunday during
> the late 1960's and until it ended in January
> 1976.  It was always a Monday morning arrival in
> Montreal.
​
The Sunday train service from Hawkesbury last appearred in the April 24th, 1960 edition of CN's timetable. Photo 1

​The trains still operated from Hawkesbury as shown in the Oct 29th, 1961 CN timetable.  Photo 2

​The April 29th, 1962 CN timetable has the trains operating from Grenville, QC.  Photo 3

Gerry Gaugl
​Ottawa ON
 

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