Canadian Railroads > Off-peak trip on the Canadian

Although I usually take only one trip per year on the Canadian, when I have a second opportunity it is seldom passed up. Having enough VIA Preference points for the train (and a half-point coupon to make it cheaper) and sufficient Aeroplan points for the spacious front cabin of an Air Canada “777” for Toronto-Vancouver made the invitation to join friends for the return train trip an irresistible proposition. As the old saying goes: “I couldn’t afford to stay home.”
 
The most enjoyable benefit of an off-peak trip on the Canadian is a short train with few passengers. Meals are served in two sittings at lunch and dinner and it is always possible to get a sitting of one’s choice even though only half or slightly more than half of the dining car is used. The disadvantages are: very little daylight, rather cold weather for walking at the longer station stops, sometimes frozen shower drains and often mounds of snow and ice to negotiate in the vestibules. Fortunately, winter is slow to arrive this year so there was no problem with the showers and there was little snow to impede walking through the train.
 
The consist of #2 departing Vancouver on Friday the 18th of November:
 
F40 6404
F40 6407
Baggage 8609
Coach 8135
Skyline 8516
Burton Manor (line #210)
Brock Manor (211)
Craig Manor (212)
Dining Car Frontenac
Château Varennes (230)
Laurentide Park (239)
 
Considering my experiences in recent years, timekeeping wasn’t too bad. The latest we were was four and a half hours out of Armstrong. Arrival in Toronto was only one hour 20 minutes late. Meets with freights were often well-timed, although we sometimes sat for an hour waiting for two or three meets. As on three of my last four Vancouver-Toronto trips, Winnipeg was reached in the middle of the night. My roomette (cabin for 1) was on the side opposite the busy platform so I actually slept through the station stop.
 
As on two other off-peak trips I made, there wasn’t anyone booked in the Prestige section. My friends went both ways by train and they also had an empty Prestige section going west. Obviously $7700 plus tax is a hard sell in the cooler weather.  Next summer the fare rises to $8800 and I suspect it will be full most of time as it usually is in peak-season. VIA refuses to lower the fare or provide upgrades in the off-peak season because (according to the Prestige staff) they do not want to “under-value” the experience. Surely it makes no sense to run the Château sleeper empty across the country. The Park car has one Prestige cabin and one “accessible” cabin. Some day a “bean counter” might suggest they either lower the fare in winter or upgrade their good customers as airlines and cruise lines do. Perhaps VIA could offer a reduced-fare “upsell”. Although I have no status with any airline and have always had to pay (whether in points or money) for the comfortable section of aircraft, my wife and I have higher status with our favourite cruise line and have had some fabulous upgrades. Before someone tells me if I or we want to go Prestige we should pay for it, that isn’t going to happen. Yes, if we saved for a while we could splurge on this three and a half-day trip. But for the same or even less money we could get two weeks on a lovely ship in a much bigger cabin with king-sized bed and balcony. So it is a matter of value for money.
 
The sleepers and other cars are basically in very good condition. My roomette had a problem with the air vent being closed. The control lever to operate it was purely decorative. I was able to scrunch some paper and insert it into the vent in order to push open the flap that controls the air supply. The 61-year-old sleepers are known for their creaking, squeaking, rattling and, particularly in the roomettes which are over a wheel, loud thumping noises and often sharp sideways shaking at higher speeds. As the Anvil Chorus is not conducive to good sleep, ear-plugs were a necessity. It’s a pity VIA doesn’t provide these any more but I remembered to bring some. My most recent sleeper trips were on the Ocean in Renaissance rooms and I wished some of those quiet cars could be operated on the Canadian. Logistically that will never happen, so trainspotters who would be upset at the appearance of the train need not be concerned.
 
The dining car food continues to be very good indeed. I am always concerned there may be cut-backs as there were a few years ago in the Business Class corridor service. The only cut-back I noticed was minor. The little jars of excellent jam have been replaced with tiny plastic containers of horrible stuff. The label on the Kraft package claimed the contents were “pure strawberry jam” but it was pure red-coloured tasteless gelatine.  The staff said this replacement was to cut down on the waste of all those little jars. So, now plastic waste replaces glass waste. This is a small matter to be sure, but I have to wonder if Prestige passengers would get something better for their toast or muffins. My favourite meal was, as always, the rack of lamb. There wasn’t a single meal that disappointed.
 
The Skyline car is used as a dining car for coach (economy) passengers only in the peak season, so they are able to use the dining car for cooked meals. The following may sound snobbish, so I will not refer to my observations but to those of other passengers I met, including my two friends.  Both on this trip and on the westbound journey my friends encountered some rather scruffy and dirty people from coach. They shared a table with a man who had filthy hands and finger-nails. This ruined the dining experience for them. There was a family with unruly children who ran up and down the aisle almost tripping the staff. On our return trip there was another man with an enormous beard who used a fork to comb it. After much of his soup ended up in his beard he wrung it out like a towel, soaking the table-cloth.
 
Of course it is possible to encounter some unpleasant people travelling in sleepers. The dining experience is not as elegant as it once was (the baseball cap has supplanted the jacket and tie as common attire even at dinner) although cloth napkins and table-cloths are still used at all meals. On some trips I have met some very charming people from coach in the dining car, but the mixture doesn’t always work out. I have lived long enough to know better than to judge people by their appearance. Many scruffy-looking people are well-educated and well-mannered. It is unfair to the dining car co-ordinator to expect him or her to screen people before seating them. The only solution I have is to perhaps keep a table or two at one end of the diner for coach passengers. After all, they do get different menus –  the same choices but with prices on them. Someone wondered aloud if Prestige passengers would share a table with a dirty and smelly person from coach. I suggested this would not happen because in the off-peak season there are usually few if any Prestige passengers and in peak-season coach passengers (if there is space for them) can eat in the first dining car. Prestige passengers will, of course, dine in the second diner adjacent to the Prestige section.
 
I was told that because so few Prestige passengers travel in the off-peak season VIA is considering putting the dining car in its usual position: behind the Skyline car.
 
Service throughout – with only one exception – was excellent as it usually is. Passengers travelling in roomettes are sometimes ignored by the attendant.  I believe this happens because roomette passengers lower and raise their own bed and some attendants seem to think that the room never needs to be serviced because of this. The sleeper attendant from Vancouver to Winnipeg fussed over my tiny cabin as if it was a suite. It was tidied twice a day and the sheets changed each morning as with the berths and the larger cabins.  His replacement at Winnipeg ignored my room . I finally found him after dinner and he cheerfully provided a shower kit and changed the towels, but he didn’t even make the bed. This was the only lapse in service.  I had many enjoyable conversations with the two Prestige staff on each side of Winnipeg who had little to do other than serve drinks and snacks in the Park car.
 
Entertainment is subjective, of course, and I have never been fond of the entertainers on the Canadian. I have had better luck on the Ocean. On this trip there were three: two who played the guitar and sang (howled was more like it) and one other who may have been their manager. I have no problem vacating the Park car to make room for those who like that sort of thing, but when off-duty these three sometimes sprawled over the “bullet lounge” taking up two seats each. There is space for only 11 in the rear lounge of the re-configured Prestige Park cars. These three were very loud and vulgar and the general consensus was this was not conducive to the sleeper experience.
 

Something has to happen with the Prestige Cars in off-season. I don't see why VIA can't reduce the price. Better than running it empty. Either run it, or pull it off and just use the Park Car Prestige (one room only - sorry folks!). Tour group in the winter can book them? I've seen tour groups on the Canadian from time to time. booking sleeper space. VIA's got something now to advertise in the winter with its Prestige cars. But if they are only good for peak season, this really diminishes their return on investment (yes I am an accountant).

Throw a piano in the bar area of the Park Car or where the desk used to be and I'll play on request. You won't have me singing, but you'll get some descent music.

Thanks DrawingroomA for the great  report!  I just booked for departure March 20, WPG - Vancouver - Toronto - WPG using half price coupon, 50% points coupon and the Black Friday special for final segment.  The only problem will be the five pounds I put on enjoying all the food!  Canadian still the best I am sure!!

Again, thanks!!@



 

Thanks for a great report.  A friend and I are riding in March.  I have something in excess of a dozen trips including my honeymoon when it was a CPR train.  I love the roomettes.  I used to book a single occupancy bedroom but decided the roomettes are actually more comfortable for one person because the seats are more comfortable during the day, with a nice foot stool.  The roomettes are really well designed and have room for about everything.  The disadvantage of course occurs around 3 a.m., and I don't mean the noise and jiggle from the trucks.  Now, what is your favorite cruise line, and why?

JBWX

 

One question:  weren't car numbers reversed so that 210, for example, was nearest Park Car and numbers went up as one goes forward?   

jbwest Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks for a great report.  A friend and I are
> riding in March.  I have something in excess of a
> dozen trips including my honeymoon when it was a
> CPR train.  I love the roomettes.  I used to
> book a single occupancy bedroom but decided the
> roomettes are actually more comfortable for one
> person because the seats are more comfortable
> during the day, with a nice foot stool.  The
> roomettes are really well designed and have room
> for about everything.  The disadvantage of course
> occurs around 3 a.m., and I don't mean the noise
> and jiggle from the trucks.  Now, what is your
> favorite cruise line, and why?
>
> JBWX
>
The roomette was a brilliant invention. My first trip in one was in 1968, but it wasn’t long before I found them a bit cramped. Over the decades, as the sleepers get older – and me as well – they are less appealing. When my wife and I travel we book a bedroom “F” and previously used to splurge on a drawing room (cabin for 3) from time to time. Drawing rooms are rarely available on the Canadian and when they are they are priced only at full fare, never in the discounted category. I will not share a room with anyone else, and I’m usually too cheap to pay the supplement for a double bedroom. I have been blessed with several upgrades over the years but, of course, can never count on it. Some of my travelling companions book a bedroom suite (for three) so there is an extra chair during the day and one friend always travels in a double room. Of course, with unlimited access to the Park car, except in peak season starting next year, I don’t spend too much time in the accommodation.
 
My favourite cruise line is Cunard: mainly for the elegant traditions that have not been “dumbed down” to the same degree as on most other lines. Also, Cunard is the only line that does the classic Atlantic crossings. Occasionally a crossing will call in Halifax on its way to or from New York. To keep these comments in the context of Canadian rail travel, it has been possible to take the Queen Mary 2 from England to Halifax then take the Ocean to Montreal then continue to Toronto. To be able to travel to or from Europe without flying is a treat. There are two opportunities to do so involving Halifax next year but, sadly, none in 2018. There is also an annual cruise including Quebec and Maritime ports and this can be combined with an Atlantic crossing, so it will still be possible to travel Quebec – England or v.v. although this will take two weeks. I guess we will just have to suffer that extra time on board!
 
 Even though it is possible to travel by train between Toronto and New York (either directly or via Montreal) this is not convenient when boarding or arriving on a ship. It requires an overnight stay in New York and, if going via Montreal, another night there. Thirteen hours on Amtrak’s Maple Leaf has no appeal. We have flown between New York and Toronto on Porter for a fare less than Amtrak’s.
 
My mother and her family - and also my mother-in-law - immigrated to Canada from the UK, arriving at Pier 21 in Halifax, then continuing to Toronto by train. We were able to recreate that voyage for the first time in 2014, although being very fond of Halifax we stayed two days rather than board the train a few hours after arrival.
 

viatrainrider Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> One question:  weren't car numbers reversed so
> that 210, for example, was nearest Park Car and
> numbers went up as one goes forward?   

They were in peak season in 2015, much to my annoyance as was discussed at the time. We specifically booked a June trip in car 22 to be close to the Park car. Car 22 ended up being 18 cars from the Park car. This year they went back to having 110/210 as the first sleeper.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/29/16 04:50 by DrawingroomA.

Okay, they changed the numbers back. Of course I requested everything for my trip 110/210 thinking I would be near the Park! So if they would leave the numbers alone! Well off season in March won't have too far to get to Park.

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I have benefited many times from Drawing Room A's advice regarding the Canadian, so would ask for help one more time from those who know more about VIA that me.  Planning a trip with my 13 year old son in the March/April time frame--his first across Canada, my third.  Have usually benefited from a 30% or 50% ticket sale; is a ticket sale still a reasonable expectation or has VIA changed its discounting policies?

bbickle Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have benefited many times from Drawing Room A's
> advice regarding the Canadian, so would ask
> for help one more time from those who know more
> about VIA that me.  Planning a trip with my 13
> year old son in the March/April time frame--his
> first across Canada, my third.  Have usually
> benefited from a 30% or 50% ticket sale; is a
> ticket sale still a reasonable expectation or has
> VIA changed its discounting policies?

I'm pessimistic about future 50% sales. VIA's CEO, Yves Desjardins-Siciliano, has hinted there may be no more or at least fewer of them. I can't quote him, but he said VIA had been de-valuing its product by having so many sales. This summer, for the first time in several years, there was no 50% sale. The last one was for travel up to the end of June. So far there has been nothing for the winter season.

The best discounts now are the "Tuesday Discounts" which for Sleeper Plus are now available every day. The reduced fares are not as generous as 50% off. A few years ago there were many fares reduced by as much as 75%.  The disadvantages of the Sleeper Plus sale are: they are for travel only in the following few weeks; they are not available for every train and they are not available for every type of accommodation.  There were many discounts offered with this type of sale this past summer season, but they were mostly for upper and lower berths. From what I have heard VIA had a great season with heavy passenger loads in regular sleepers (despite the lack of a major sale) and there was no shortage of people willing to pay for Prestige. The report for the third quarter has not been released yet, but it will be interesting to see if the losses on the Canadian are substantially less than previous years.

We rode Prestige class July 31-Aug 4, Vancouver to Toronto.  There were 7 of us and 2 got off in winnipeg.  The Prestige class has 13 bedrooms, capacity of 26 people.  The next two return trips from Toronto to Vaccouver were booked solid.

Carol Voss
Bakersfield, CA

There was just a Black Friday special pretty much system wide including Canadian through April.  Not sure what per centage off the discount fare but not 50%.    Used it to book part of my upcoming March trip.  Figured that with fewer specials coming up, a special in hand is better than waiting for one that may or may not happen.  Unfortunately, this special ended Monday.  So if another special comes up, I would say take it as one never knows what other specials may be.

Thanks everyone for the help.  You are right about the black friday sale which would have have saved almost $600 on the total fare of about $3,300, almost 20% discount.  Didn't have the good judgement to grab that.  All that said, when you consider four nights, the service, the experience, the scenery and for me the benefits of the exchange rate, the Canadian at winter rates is  a great vacation value and we are looking forward to our trip.  My son at 13 knows that long distance train trips mean no wi-fi (have not told him differently) and he thinks the Canadian for four days is worth giving up his electronics.  As Visa would say, "that is priceless".   So the plan is to book the trip, enjoy and if a sale comes along, exchange the tickets if it makes sense to do so. 

You should at least be sure to use the "discounted" fare.  If discounted is sold out for one day you are looking at for the accommodation you want, try another day.  You can see discounted fare by looking at accommodations on VIA website.