European Railroad Discussion > Estonia: EVR Cargo C36-7ais Next to Russian Border in N

Here is another picture story of my favorite C36-7ai locomotives in Estonia. The previous

http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?17,3503820

handled road running and now it is time to see what happens next to Russian border in Narva. This is a city where East and West have met for hundreds of years and this summer it looked like the tensions would again be mounting. It looks to me like both Russia and EU are showing their might on the border line. Russia started this actually a while back making lots of small Orthodox churches right to the border line on their side. I don't think the individuals who built those buildings understood how annoying and strange those look seen from the Estonian / Western side. I think they were simply trying to protect their culture from West, which they might think as corrupt and something to fear. So maybe they were showing where the border line is running? On Estonian side there were earlier only standard lookout posts, radars and cameras, standard to all European Union outer borders. But now the European Union is building mighty show off fancy platform on western bank of the river. Narva and Ivangorod (Ivangorod meaning Ivan's city, which I find hilarious name for the ex. Soviet border town) have this new campaign. I wonder what the next move will be...

Before the Estonians crossed border along the high bridge built a top the turbulent river to Russia to buy cheaper food there. Now the Russians, due to sanctions, are flocking to supermarkets in Narva. Strange how easily politics can turn around this feature!

In Narva is also the largest public rail yard (much bigger Muuga harbor being private yard) of Estonia with trains running East and West. The traffic here is based today largely on oil cans and covered hoppers, occasional unit trains of open gondolas can be seen too. Gone are the forest industry trains that filled the scene earlier along the other types. Forest industry today seems to use mostly Estonian wood, thanks to Russian heavy export customs. The intention for the customs was that Western companies would be forced build wood processing plants to Russia, instead they have invested in places like South America and China and Russian wood exports are foundering.

Trains here most of the time change locomotives and many trains are almost doubled in length. This means need for heavy locomotion. It looks like a single C36-7ai unit is most of the time either working on putting trains together or waiting for the next tasks. This is a picture story of EVR Cargo (Eesti Raudtee freight division is now called this) unit 1531 switching in Narva. This time it looks like it is many Latvian LDZ hoppers following the GE unit.

Interestingly here is seen a Wisconsin Southern colored C36-7ai with Ed Burkhart built train control and base building right behind it. Everything is much cleaner than it was after Soviet Union, but it was only Ed who started dramatic progress here by doing the necessary investments. I think he got a pretty good return on this investment too until the Russian ports were capable of handling a larger portion of their export goods around year 2011. And by then he had sold the company to Estonian state.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/17/14 01:29 by McKey.

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Looks like the engineer is thoughtful looking across the border crossing towards Russia and smoking his self rolled cigarette. What might his worry be?

Btw. what meter is that big round one a top of the console?

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He will also have to wait until the Ukrainian Lugansk built RzD 2Te116M clears the track to the Russian side to proceed. However, I have never seen that C-boats would have crossed the border bridge here to Russian side. Even if Russia now also has invested to a new rail yard just one kilometer on their side where earlier it was all woods.

On next tracks is also a sister loco unit 1542, which is facing west and ready to escort one of the huge trains westward through the plains and occasional forest in Estonia.

For castles and other structures in Narva and Ivangorod you might wish to look here:http://www.4rail.net/reference_estonia_gallery2.php#stat_narva and scroll to bottom of the page.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/17/14 01:59 by McKey.

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McKey Wrote:
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> Looks like the engineer is thoughtful looking
> across the border crossing towards Russia and
> smoking his self rolled cigarette. What might his
> worry be?
>
> Btw. what meter is that big round one a top of the
> console?


That meter looks to be the "load meter" or amp meter, shows the amperage loading of the traction motors as well as the load while in dynamic brake. Doug

Thanks! I thought it was that.

So, how does it work in real life, is the engineer supposed to feed more power from main engine through generator if the track motors require more? Or is it a meter that shows how much power is used by traction motors and there is some limit that can not be exceeded? Or just a way to see what amount of power is needed to move the train?

hoggerdoug Wrote:
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> That meter looks to be the "load meter" or amp
> meter, shows the amperage loading of the traction
> motors as well as the load while in dynamic brake.
> Doug

Boy that track work in their yard looks great!

85% European Union subsidies makes miracles! I live in one of the countries next door that is paying all this. But it is for common good, Estonians are mostly extremely industrious and hard workers.

Today, also the Flirt DMUs run to Narva several times per day serving the East-West main line. Here is a set of pictures of this Stadler Rail Poland manufactured DMU. This is a longer unit, I think the ones to Narva have just two modules plus "power pack".


BNModeler Wrote:
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> Boy that track work in their yard looks great!

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It just shows how much current amperge is being used, will vary at each throttle setting as well as speed,load being pulled and the track gradient will affect the amperage load as well. The meter usually has a green, yellow and red zone. Green indicates the load rate is okay, yellow the load is getting high, red zone indicates the electrical load is too high and can only operate at this load for a few minutes and the engineer ought to throttle down and reduce the electrical load. Attached image of a load meter in the high or "minute rating". Doug

McKey Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks! I thought it was that.
>
> So, how does it work in real life, is the engineer
> supposed to feed more power from main engine
> through generator if the track motors require
> more? Or is it a meter that shows how much power
> is used by traction motors and there is some limit
> that can not be exceeded? Or just a way to see
> what amount of power is needed to move the train?
>
>
> hoggerdoug Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > That meter looks to be the "load meter" or amp
> > meter, shows the amperage loading of the
> traction
> > motors as well as the load while in dynamic
> brake.
> > Doug

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great pics keep them coming thanks Matt

I recall that back in 1995 the yard at Narva was pretty empty. Good to see those big GEs in Wisconsin Central maroon and gold.

As an aside I also remember when we were mooching round Narva castle we found a large bronze statue of Lenin in orator mode round the back next to the bins. Unfortunately I couldn't fit it in the boot of our Ford Mondeo.

Very interesting! Is this feature on the new U.S. locos too?

If you overload the track motors, will this lead to them getting broken or what would the result be?

Sorry about many questions, this seems highly interesting feature of these locos.

hoggerdoug Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It just shows how much current amperge is being
> used, will vary at each throttle setting as well
> as speed,load being pulled and the track gradient
> will affect the amperage load as well. The meter
> usually has a green, yellow and red zone. Green
> indicates the load rate is okay, yellow the load
> is getting high, red zone indicates the electrical
> load is too high and can only operate at this load
> for a few minutes and the engineer ought to
> throttle down and reduce the electrical load.
> Attached image of a load meter in the high or
> "minute rating". Doug
>
> McKey Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Thanks! I thought it was that.
> >
> > So, how does it work in real life, is the
> engineer
> > supposed to feed more power from main engine
> > through generator if the track motors require
> > more? Or is it a meter that shows how much
> power
> > is used by traction motors and there is some
> limit
> > that can not be exceeded? Or just a way to see
> > what amount of power is needed to move the
> train?
> >
> >
> > hoggerdoug Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > That meter looks to be the "load meter" or
> amp
> > > meter, shows the amperage loading of the
> > traction
> > > motors as well as the load while in dynamic
> > brake.
> > > Doug




There are two castles here, I think you all can guess from the looks which is on which side?

This Russian Orthodox cathedral is somehow hidden by Ed Burkhard building in above picture, I'm quite surprised this does not show at all behind the other building there. The garages seem to an important part of Russian culture in Baltic states, which explains why they are at the church yard.

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McKey Wrote:
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. This
> is a city where East and West have met for
> hundreds of years and this summer it looked like
> the tensions would again be mounting.

I'm not sure about the history of Narva pre-1700, but the fortress was captured by Russian forces from the Swedes under Peter the Great in the early part of that century. Only was a "border" town 1922-1940, and post-1991.

Possibly it was an important trading outpost before the Russo-Swedish wars.....




It looks to
> me like both Russia and EU are showing their might
> on the border line. Russia started this actually a
> while back making lots of small Orthodox churches
> right to the border line on their side. I don't
> think the individuals who built those buildings
> understood how annoying and strange those look
> seen from the Estonian / Western side. I think
> they were simply trying to protect their culture
> from West, which they might think as corrupt and
> something to fear. So maybe they were showing
> where the border line is running?


John, you need to stop having such an, er, "Finnish" view of this. :))

The explanation is simpler.........there is a Russian term "vipendryozh"......the closest English translation I can think of (one that's printable at least) is "showing off", but the connotation is not the same.

But I believe this will give you the general idea.....

Narva and Ivangorod (Ivangorod
> meaning Ivan's city, which I find hilarious name
> for the ex. Soviet border town) have this new
> campaign. I wonder what the next move will be...

Ivangorod existed since the area was captured by the Russians from the Swedes (I think it might have been the staging area for Russian forces during the siege of Narva, partially would explain the name) and for most of the last 300 years, the river was just a river, nothing more. No border. Thus, excluding 19 years between 1922 and 1940, Ivangorod was not a Soviet border town.....

>
> Before the Estonians crossed border along the high
> bridge built a top the turbulent river to Russia
> to buy cheaper food there. Now the Russians, due
> to sanctions, are flocking to supermarkets in
> Narva. Strange how easily politics can turn around
> this feature!
>

If the things are going the way they're going, pretty soon you will have two things: 1) Russians not being able to cross due to tight border restrictions on the Russian side, and 2) instead of churches and border posts staring at each other, it will be gun barrels and mine fields...... :((

I will, and there will be many more later. Railways and tramways in Estonia are in specially interesting phase of change now and will be a few next years.

shay2977 Wrote:
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> great pics keep them coming thanks Matt


Some more DMUs, Flirt DMUs replaced these other round nosed RVR Soviet era built Dr1s from January 1st 2014.

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C36-7's are awesome, no matter how they are painted, or where they are living. Thanks for sharing!

~RGDave

That is something...would you have taken it to plane too ;)

86235 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I recall that back in 1995 the yard at Narva was
> pretty empty. Good to see those big GEs in
> Wisconsin Central maroon and gold.
>
> As an aside I also remember when we were mooching
> round Narva castle we found a large bronze statue
> of Lenin in orator mode round the back next to the
> bins. Unfortunately I couldn't fit it in the boot
> of our Ford Mondeo.

I think 1995 must have been right before the great boom on rail traffic. What kind of vehicles did you see then on rails? Green and other Earth tones with creamy stripes?

I sure hope this will not happen. After all this is what we had during the Soviet Russia period. There were nothing but losers in people then, at least this far north. I think the working relations across the border have shown their power.

Reading Baltic early history it looks like these countries have suffered a great deal of attacks from all directions, but mostly from west and south. Reading that history it is surprising the countries are in such a good shape and optimistic today. In near history WW2 was one of the very worst periods for Baltic people too.

chs7-321 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If the things are going the way they're going,
> pretty soon you will have two things: 1) Russians
> not being able to cross due to tight border
> restrictions on the Russian side, and 2) instead
> of churches and border posts staring at each
> other, it will be gun barrels and mine
> fields...... :((

here is a better image of the "load meter". The loco is in idle, "green" zone for power up to about 1300 amps and then into the "red" for the minute rating, the maximum allowable time allowed in the red zone load wise. On the left side of the meter is for the load in dynamic braking, it too has a red zone, exceeding the allowable load. Doug



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/17/14 07:45 by hoggerdoug.

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Thank you! This is all very interesting as these devices are not common in Europe, at least in the Northernmost countries.

hoggerdoug Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> here is a better image of the "load meter". The
> loco is in idle, "green" zone for power up to
> about 1300 amps and then into the "red" for the
> minute rating, the maximum allowable time allowed
> in the red zone load wise. On the left side of the
> meter is for the load in dynamic braking, it too
> has a red zone, exceeding the allowable load.
> Doug

North American Diesel-Electric locomotives have had Amp meters (Load meters) since the first Diesel Electrics back in the 1930's.

Doug didn't clear up what happens if you operate the locomotive with the Amp meter too long in the Red Zone. What the Red Zone indicates is that the Amperage is exceeding the maximum continuous rated amount for the traction motors. At this high amperage the blower motors cannot keep up with the heat being generated by the motors and they will get hotter and hotter until the insulation in the windings melts and causes a short circuit. The C36-7 locomotives when built for the Missouri Pacific railroad were partially microprocessor controlled and were among the first locomotives equipped with MTP(Motor Thermal Protection), which automatically reduced power to prevent overheating of the motors. No other C36-7s were microprocessor control(except for those upgraded to Super-7 versions. This equipment may have been removed for simplicity of repair before they were shipped to Estonia, hence the ammeters with the time markings.