European Railroad Discussion > Innotrans: Fressiarossa 1000 Super High Speed EMUs

One of the highlights of Innotrans 2014 was this bright red long awaited mixed breed super high speed train. Handsome design by Bertone this new EMU is in testing phase with units accumulating in Italy for the start of revenue run. "Fressiarossa 10000" is a cooperation project between Bombardier and ill fated Ansaldo-Breda of Italy. (A-B is also behind the Danish IC4 and IC2 DMUs as well as Dutch/Belgian V250 duckbill EMUs).

Looking at the background in Italy the rocks started rolling when a new open access operator NTV entered the scene, first time seriously challenging the state operator FS / Trenitalia. Trenitalia did everything in its might (which is much) to keep the monopoly state in the high speed traffic but now after 7 years NTV has firmly secured some routes for its network. Things got so hot that at one point another state operator SNCF from France took a 15% share on NTV to keep things rolling. Likely reason for this might be that supplier for NTV trains was the French super high speed giant Alstom with its new AGV train type. Stopping only client (so far) for AGV might have endangered this segment in Alstom product portfolio.

Lets look at the trains a bit.
- FS has had for long class ETR 500 EMUs capable of running 300 km/h (and up?) / 186 mph. While this speed was challenged by NTV+AGV entering the market, FS decided to paint these trains for fifth time, now to red colors matching pretty much the NTV colors and most importantly making customers harder to understand the different trains of the two operators.
- NTV entered the market with their AGVs capable of running 360 km/h (depending on the configuration) / 224 mph. A serious challenge to FS.
- FS countered the attack by ordering Fressiarossa 1000 on a quick schedule from Bombardier + Ansaldo-Breda. These trains also run up to 360 km/h / 224 mph matching the competition.
- The campaign between the operators was fought in several fronts including international traffic for years. It will be interesting to see the financial data for NTV for the whole 2014 to see if the operator already has established a strong foothold.

One important aspect here is that Italy is one of the BIG super high speed line countries in Europe with an extensive network of lines between the larger cities.

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One more cool Bertone design nose picture and then what the ETR 500 look now, picture by Gerry, and what they looked like before NTV entered the scene, picture by Ilkka.

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And here are some mockup pictures from the previous Innotrans in 2012. Note the subtle design differences, and the fact that the stickers at the front resembling grilles are still in place! (at least they look like stickers on the real unit too)

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For the backgrounder this is how Bombardier perfected its super high speed trains. The Green Train of Sweden ran for two years perfecting the components a few years ago. Not this Regina EMU alone of course was enough but speeds over the needed 360 km/h were achieved many times.

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McKey Wrote:
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> And here are some mockup pictures from the
> previous Innotrans in 2012. Note the subtle design
> differences, and the fact that the stickers at the
> front resembling grilles are still in place! (at
> least they look like stickers on the real unit
> too)


I was wondering about that. ARE they stickers on the real unit?

I checked my very large picture. It appears to be a sticker :D (You will find this at 4rail.net later today)

It is indeed well weathered, but the contrast is slightly too small for a real one in this lighting and the edges have smudges although the other nose section yet does not have. Design is everything!

And, while processing pictures I started thinking a bit what we are looking at: who would put grilles on nose cone doors where the doors get occasionally direct hits adn when it is raining it would just pour directly into the coupler housing...


BigDave Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> McKey Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > And here are some mockup pictures from the
> > previous Innotrans in 2012. Note the subtle
> design
> > differences, and the fact that the stickers at
> the
> > front resembling grilles are still in place!
> (at
> > least they look like stickers on the real unit
> > too)
>
>
> I was wondering about that. ARE they stickers on
> the real unit?

Took another look at the EMU: here is finally the covered leading bogie! This should reduce noise generated by super high speed running significantly. Alstom discussed this a few years ago on its AGV. Just covering much of the leading bogie will help cut the noise always associated with super fast speeds. Or this is what was discussed.

McKey Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Looking at the background in Italy the rocks
> started rolling when a new open access operator
> NTV entered the scene, first time seriously
> challenging the state operator FS / Trenitalia.
> Trenitalia did everything in its might (which is
> much) to keep the monopoly state in the high speed
> traffic but now after 7 years NTV has firmly
> secured some routes for its network. Things got so
> hot that at one point another state operator SNCF
> from France took a 15% share on NTV to keep things
> rolling. Likely reason for this might be that
> supplier for NTV trains was the French super high
> speed giant Alstom with its new AGV train type.
> Stopping only client (so far) for AGV might have
> endangered this segment in Alstom product
> portfolio.
>
> Lets look at the trains a bit.
> - FS has had for long class ETR 500 EMUs capable
> of running 300 km/h (and up?) / 186 mph. While
> this speed was challenged by NTV+AGV entering the
> market, FS decided to paint these trains for fifth
> time, now to red colors matching pretty much the
> NTV colors and most importantly making customers
> harder to understand the different trains of the
> two operators.
> - NTV entered the market with their AGVs capable
> of running 360 km/h (depending on the
> configuration) / 224 mph. A serious challenge to
> FS.
> - FS countered the attack by ordering Fressiarossa
> 1000 on a quick schedule from Bombardier +
> Ansaldo-Breda. These trains also run up to 360
> km/h / 224 mph matching the competition.
> - The campaign between the operators was fought in
> several fronts including international traffic for
> years. It will be interesting to see the financial
> data for NTV for the whole 2014 to see if the
> operator already has established a strong
> foothold.

NTV announced a few days ago that they were withdrawing service to the Adriatic coast cities of Rimini, Pesaro, and Ancona, due to weak numbers. These cities had a limited service, and the company felt the train sets providing the service would be better utilized on their main network.

Thank you SOO, this is all very interesting. How might their business otherwise doing.

I suspect that state operator has not stopped their monopolistic actions.

SOO6617 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> NTV announced a few days ago that they were
> withdrawing service to the Adriatic coast cities
> of Rimini, Pesaro, and Ancona, due to weak
> numbers. These cities had a limited service, and
> the company felt the train sets providing the
> service would be better utilized on their main
> network.

McKey Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thank you SOO, this is all very interesting. How
> might their business otherwise doing.
>
> I suspect that state operator has not stopped
> their monopolistic actions.

The actions like trying to claim all the train paths seems to have stopped, but the price competition whereby Trenitalia is trying to financially drive NTV out of business is continuing to the long-term detriment of both companies. In the short term it means low prices for their customers, but in the long-term if Trenitalia succeeds it won't be good.

And if the things get hot enough this train war might be extended to international routes too. That is at least what Trenitalia was boasting on doing earlier. However I doubt they can successfully undermine SNCF's success, which is the by far largest international operator. (For others SNCF has brands like TGV, Eurostar, Thalys, Lyria, ...).

I wonder what happens when ÖBB Railjet starts running through to Italy sometime in 2015 with their next brand new high speed Railjet units. Another Trenitalia vs. World battle?

And once the Gotthard base tunnel opens it will be SBB running to Italy far more than today. SBB and Trenitalia don't seem to have healthy relations either. Another battle opportunity for Trenitalia?

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Contrast this equipment with today's photos of the Washington States new Talgos. Why can't we have trains that look as good as this instead of like Donald Duck. Obviously it can be done.

Not to mention fancy stuff Japanese always seem to be able to create for high speed class! Talk about lots of imagination, industrial design and high tech combined!

Congratulations on the IOTD! Gerry

Thank you for notifying Gerry!

GPutz Wrote:
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> Congratulations on the IOTD! Gerry

Geez... why can't we have this in the good ole USA? Thanks KOCH brothers!!!!!!

GOOD stuff...!!! Thanks for sharing.

Thank you ns1000 and bluesboyst! My intention was originally to write next week to other medias and continue here later, but since you are interested, I'll keep these coming to trainorders.

ns1000 Wrote:
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> GOOD stuff...!!! Thanks for sharing.

McKey Wrote:
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> Thank you ns1000 and bluesboyst! My intention was
> originally to write next week to other medias and
> continue here later, but since you are interested,
> I'll keep these coming to trainorders.
>
> ns1000 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > GOOD stuff...!!! Thanks for sharing.


I'm really enjoying your posts. I agree with others who have noted the quality of industrial design shown by European and Japanese rolling stock builders. No doubt there will be many posters who complain about the Charger locos being built for several states but I think they are a step in the right direction.