European Railroad Discussion > ...Hilts!

Since we are now discussing widely HectorRail, lets plunge into their naming of every and each locomotive. All of these seem to be of movie characters and should somehow reflect the characteristics of the locomotive...

Enter "Hilts", Nohab type T43, Swedish class T43, Hector class 841, number 003! I think many of us must have seen an extremely interesting classic movie "The Great Escape" from 1963. If you have not yet, this is definitely worth taking the time. Great Escape, as the name suggests, tells about Nazi concentration camp for Allied officers and their planning and execution of huge escape plot. This is based on true story, and as in any good movie, the end is pretty disturbing: Hitler ordered every escapee to be shot, but in the end "just" 50 are executed, quite humanly as the deed is done so that they don't know it before being shot by all of a surprise. So this is the true story, and hero in this fictional movie is "Hilts", played by actor Steve McQueen. It would appear that McQueen also was unusually talented motorcycle driver, or else stunts were originally invented at this time...

The locomotive in the picture is seen here in Umeå, at the harbor entrance yard. It is indeed rough, durable and very powerful, something to do with Character Hilts!

Question 1: Can you tell from the coloring on the original owner of this cool Nohab built Swedish-American diesel?

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Here is some background to the WW2 part of the story:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Escape_%28film%29

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stalag_Luft_III

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Reportedly McQueen did most of the stunts himself, including jump the bike over the barbed wire fence. Less attorneys and insurance restrictions in 1963.

:D

Must have been lots and lots of practicing, the jumps look quite impressive!

masterphots Wrote:
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> Reportedly McQueen did most of the stunts himself,
> including jump the bike over the barbed wire
> fence. Less attorneys and insurance restrictions
> in 1963.

Now, whose loco would the one above have been previously?

No danger giving a guess!

Hint 1: It is a former well established Swedish private company (at the time when most everything was socialized by the social democratic party in power)

Here is also another T43 at Årsta, Stockholm (local intermodal yard) and one T66 / class 66 unit being painted over from the former company X colors...but what is X?

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McKey Wrote:
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> Now, whose loco would the one above have been
> previously?
>
> No danger giving a guess!
>
> Hint 1: It is a former well established Swedish
> private company (at the time when most everything
> was socialized by the social democratic party in
> power)
>

Well, my guess would be TGOJ as the previous owner. But SJ would have been the original owner, as the "real" [ pre SJ "subsidiary" ] TGOJ didn't have any T43's -- did anybody other than SJ buy a new T43 ? And when you say "at the time when most everything was socialized...." to what time are you referring ?

Best rgds, SZ

Oh, this looks a lot more complicated than I thought. But I still think this is indeed still a TGOJ locomotive, in their earlier green paint scheme. I could pinpoint some older pictures of T43 in TGOJ colors owned by TGOJ form 2003. If the information I read is correct the Trafikaktiebolaget Grängesberg–Oxelösunds Järnvägar a private company then. These locomotives (looks like they had several) might have been originating at SJ. They also had T44s, in the picture below is seen one of these, in TGOJ newer scheme, still carrying TGOJ logos after being used by Green Cargo that swallowed TGOJ in 2011. And also worth seeing is the TGOJ colored Tmx.

Steinzeit Wrote:
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> McKey Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Now, whose loco would the one above have been
> > previously?
> >
> > No danger giving a guess!
> >
> > Hint 1: It is a former well established Swedish
> > private company (at the time when most
> everything
> > was socialized by the social democratic party
> in
> > power)
> >
>
> Well, my guess would be TGOJ as the previous
> owner. But SJ would have been the original owner,
> as the "real" [ pre SJ "subsidiary" ] TGOJ didn't
> have any T43's -- did anybody other than SJ buy a
> new T43 ? And when you say "at the time when most
> everything was socialized...." to what time are
> you referring ?
>
> Best rgds, SZ

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SJ originally took over the TGOJ in 1981, and used their corporate structure for various purposes, some of which may have had to do with bypassing work rules or union relations of traditional SJ employees -- someone with more local knowledge will have to expound on that. The formation of the Green Cargo arm of SJ came later, and eventually both companies were combined instead of working together [ more or less ].

Best, SZ

TGOJ also had MA electrics with rectangular and round side windows. These units were in storage at Eskilstuna, Sweden, 07.06.2012. Thanks to Tom Werner for the tour. Gerry

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Wasn't it so that the square window ones originate at SJ...or vise verse?

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GPutz Wrote:
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> TGOJ also had MA electrics with rectangular and
> round side windows.....

In the post SJ ownership period from 1981 on, that's correct -- but only the 400's [ portholes, MU, etc. ] were "real TGOJ" locomotives; the other Ma's were SJ machines transferred over, and I think those all kept their SJ numbers.

Best, SZ [ Ma fan for over 45 years ]

It looks like the ownership years have wild differences in different sources, but in 2011 GC took over anyway. And much earlier already TGOJ had Swedish state as one of the indirect owners.

Steinzeit Wrote:
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> SJ originally took over the TGOJ in 1981, and used
> their corporate structure for various purposes,
> some of which may have had to do with bypassing
> work rules or union relations of traditional SJ
> employees -- someone with more local knowledge
> will have to expound on that. The formation of
> the Green Cargo arm of SJ came later, and
> eventually both companies were combined instead of
> working together [ more or less ].
>
> Best, SZ

Looks like I need to find your reference book too, where are you looking for the facts?

Steinzeit Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> GPutz Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > TGOJ also had MA electrics with rectangular and
> > round side windows.....
>
> In the post SJ ownership period from 1981 on,
> that's correct -- but only the 400's [ portholes,
> MU, etc. ] were "real TGOJ" locomotives; the
> other Ma's were SJ machines transferred over, and
> I think those all kept their SJ numbers.
>
> Best, SZ [ Ma fan for over 45 years ]

McKey Wrote:
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> Looks like I need to find your reference book too,
> where are you looking for the facts?
>
I suppose the reference I would usually use is "Svenska Lok och Motorvagnar 1/1 1971 " by Diehl/Nilsson. This is a 'Taschenbuch'/pocket book very much in the style of the Frank Stenvalls books, though not published by him, and which was perhaps was a forerunner.

And then I've been in the hobby for a while, too -- see photos.....

Best rgds, SZ

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Wow, what a set pictures! Thank you for sharing these Steinzeit!

Interestingly, I think these is a pretty good chance one of the T43s might still be wearing tricolor much the way it is pictured above. I have not seen it (yet), but pictures seem to exist. There are all kinds of more or less wild color schemes on T43s today. Actually it seems to be quite hard to find two similarly painted T43s today! ;)