European Railroad Discussion > Eurotunnel stops trains (again)

"Channel Tunnel operator forced to halt services in both directions - forcing passengers to wait for hours - after 'mass intrusion' of migrants at Coquelles."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/11940352/Eurotunnel-stops-trains-after-hundreds-of-migrants-storm-terminal-in-France.html

And there is this report from two weeks ago (not sure if it might already have been referenced here on TrainOrders):

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-34432386



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/19/15 18:53 by Bandito.

And yet what is so amazing is that for the vast majority of the time the system works absolutely without problem. I suppose it is a bit like water out of the tap - it's only news when it doesn't work and yet it is really a miracle we take for granted. I have used the tunnel several hundred times since it opened without any disruption at all.

As for migrants, who can blame them? We take a very smug attitude in the UK towards the rest of the world, and yet a single 70 mile drive from London to Kent, passing literally thousands of foreign trucks, shows that whether we like it or nor we are part of the international economy. It seems hard to conceive of unrestricted trade in goods, services and capital while attempting to block humans. Trump take note!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/19/15 19:16 by spflow.

The difference is truck traffic is moving legally. The migrants are ILLEGAL. They do not have the required Visas to enter the U.K. or Schengen area of western Europe. Of course they are in a difficult situation. But law TRUMPS their rights compared to the normal citizen who must go through reams of red tape just to obtain a Schengen visa. Send them to other Arab countries who have the space and can afford to house them. Stop disrupting the lives of honest legal citizens and tourists who play by the rules. Perhaps attitudes will change once it is discovered that one of these migrants committs a terrorist act. Then what? 

Desperate people will take desperate risks.  Why is anyone surprised ? 

andersonb109 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The difference is truck traffic is moving legally.
> The migrants are ILLEGAL. They do not have the
> required Visas to enter the U.K. or Schengen area
> of western Europe. Of course they are in a
> difficult situation. But law TRUMPS their rights
> compared to the normal citizen who must go through
> reams of red tape just to obtain a Schengen visa.
> Send them to other Arab countries who have the
> space and can afford to house them. Stop
> disrupting the lives of honest legal citizens and
> tourists who play by the rules. Perhaps attitudes
> will change once it is discovered that one of
> these migrants committs a terrorist act. Then
> what? 

What happens when someone who enters these countries legally, as a tourist or legal immigrant, commits a terroist act? Shut the borders down completely? Most  terrorist acts have been committed by citizens, legal immigrants, or people who have legally entered the country.

I surely don't have to point out that terrorism as a risk to life is utterly trivial compared with the routine hazards that we all live with (eg road traffic accidents, smoking related deaths, high infant mortality due to poor healthcare, firearms use etc). When the general homicide rate has been reduced by 95% then we might start to think about terror as a specific risk. This is of relevance on a railfan site because of the huge burdens placed on the rail industry to achieve safety levels that are regarded as absurd in other spheres (eg highways or healthcare). We just need to be a bit more consistent with our risk analyses.

spflow Wrote:
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>Trump take note!

He has, and he has spoken about it. Thus his popularity.

The flood of people (80% young men) into Europe is only partially for economic reasons. It is also a hijra, the migration to spread Islam. This is nothing new, it is a fundemental part of Islam (which translates to "submission", not "peace").

Geodyssey Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> spflow Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >Trump take note!
>
> He has, and he has spoken about it. Thus his
> popularity.
>
> The flood of people (80% young men) into Europe is
> only partially for economic reasons. It is also a
> hijra, the migration to spread Islam. This is
> nothing new, it is a fundemental part of Islam
> (which translates to "submission", not "peace").

Oh dear! I don't know where you're writing from but here in London it doesn't quite look like that.
But perhaps I had better shut up, I've obviously got it wrong and can't see what you do as to what is happening in my homelands.

My next post will be about Birmingham!

spflow Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Geodyssey Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > spflow Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > >Trump take note!
> >
> > He has, and he has spoken about it. Thus his
> > popularity.
> >
> > The flood of people (80% young men) into Europe
> is
> > only partially for economic reasons. It is also
> a
> > hijra, the migration to spread Islam. This is
> > nothing new, it is a fundemental part of Islam
> > (which translates to "submission", not
> "peace").
>
> Oh dear! I don't know where you're writing from
> but here in London it doesn't quite look like
> that.
> But perhaps I had better shut up, I've obviously
> got it wrong and can't see what you do as to what
> is happening in my homelands.
>
> My next post will be about Birmingham!


Even with blinders on, you must have seen that the tunnel was closed (again), after all, that's what this thread is about.

Everything in my previous post was accurate.

> Even with blinders on, you must have seen that the
> tunnel was closed (again), after all, that's what
> this thread is about.
>
> Everything in my previous post was accurate.

Exactly, and my point was that in the last 20 years I have driven past the tunnel terminal around 10,000 times, and used the tunnel for over 200 trips in which the only disruption was once about 15 years ago when the catenary was iced up. Over the same period I have personally witnessed two fatal road traffic accidents between London and Folkestone, and suffered delays totaaling around 200 hours from similar incidents.

I used the Eurostar to Paris and back today without hitch, one just needs to get things in proportion.

I trust spflow is liberal enough that he will have no problem inviting seven or eight of these refugees into his home so they can sleep on the sofa and share his bed.  Allow a couple dozen or so more to pitch tents in the yard for good measure.  I'm sure the neighbours won't mind if they're as liberal, compassionate and "enlightened" as spflow.  

What we're seeing is the tip of the iceberg of the "population bomb."  Coupled with bleeding heart liberalism and a new world view that sovereign borders are obsolete and you have the recipe for disaster that we're now witnessing.

We need a hundred Donald Trumps to straighten this mess out.    

CA_Sou_MA_Agent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We need a hundred Donald Trumps to straighten this
> mess out.    

It amuses me that seemingly intelligent people have faith in populists who spout soundbites as though they are solutions. Has it ever occured to you (and others) that if it was as simple as people like Trump (and Farage over here) would have you believe, then conventional politicians would have sorted it ages ago. It's not simple and there is no quick fix. I also find it mildly amusing that citzens of countries which were populated by people seeking a better life 200 years ago are deaf and blind to those who are doing the same today. And, moreover, people who have been displaced by war and bad government on which the fingerprints of the US, UK and other western European countries are only too evident. But that has nothing to do with trains, which is what we subscribe to this website to enjoy.

86235 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> CA_Sou_MA_Agent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > We need a hundred Donald Trumps to straighten
> this
> > mess out.    
>
> It amuses me that seemingly intelligent people
> have faith in populists who spout soundbites as
> though they are solutions. Has it ever occured to
> you (and others) that if it was as simple as
> people like Trump (and Farage over here) would
> have you believe, then conventional politicians
> would have sorted it ages ago. It's not simple and
> there is no quick fix. I also find it mildly
> amusing that citzens of countries which were
> populated by people seeking a better life 200
> years ago are deaf and blind to those who are
> doing the same today. And, moreover, people who
> have been displaced by war and bad government on
> which the fingerprints of the US, UK and other
> western European countries are only too evident.
> But that has nothing to do with trains, which is
> what we subscribe to this website to enjoy.

Hear hear! Thanks for the support, my only diffference with you is that I find the confident declarations of certainty terrifying rather tham amusing.

PS If Donald Trump had simply placed his inheritance in a traing bond he woudl be much richer now than he is. So much for his imagined golden touch!

spflow Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hear hear! Thanks for the support, my only
> diffference with you is that I find the confident
> declarations of certainty terrifying rather tham
> amusing.

I was being mildly ironic
 

86235 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> spflow Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----

>
> I was being mildly ironic
>  

Nick, of course I appreciate this - my comments were aimed at those who lack an appreciation of irony!

Politicians are hardly good at anything except dodging questions and telling lies and half truths,  fattening their own pockets, and trying to get re-elected..

spflow Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > Even with blinders on, you must have seen that
> the
> > tunnel was closed (again), after all, that's
> what
> > this thread is about.
> >
> > Everything in my previous post was accurate.
>
> Exactly, and my point was that in the last 20
> years I have driven past the tunnel terminal
> around 10,000 times, and used the tunnel for over
> 200 trips in which the only disruption was once
> about 15 years ago when the catenary was iced up.
> Over the same period I have personally witnessed
> two fatal road traffic accidents between London
> and Folkestone, and suffered delays totaaling
> around 200 hours from similar incidents.
>
> I used the Eurostar to Paris and back today
> without hitch, one just needs to get things in
> proportion.

splflow: I wonder what all of the lorry drivers and the owners of the cargo backed up from getting through the tunnel would think about your admonition to "get things into proportion."

Try this for size:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3178274/ANOTHER-1-500-migrants-storm-Channel-Tunnel-including-one-dead-hit-truck-calls-ARMY-drafted-search-vehicles-stowaways.html

>
> splflow: I wonder what all of the lorry drivers
> and the owners of the cargo backed up from getting
> through the tunnel would think about your
> admonition to "get things into proportion."
>
> Try this for size:
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3178274/AN
> OTHER-1-500-migrants-storm-Channel-Tunnel-includin
> g-one-dead-hit-truck-calls-ARMY-drafted-search-veh
> icles-stowaways.html

I think that:
1. Drivers might understand as most of them are immigrants
2. Most backing up of cross-channel highway traffic is due to disruption from other causes (eg weather, catenary problems, strikes etc)
3. They should recognise that there would be no international trade, especially within Europe, without large scale movement of people.

It is the price you pay for operating in in an open society, the same as disruption by political protest. There are alternatives - eg China, but do you want that? I can't speak for others, but I know which I prefer.

It strikes me that as members of an affluent and civilsed society (Western Europe), we have choices as to how we use our wealth. One way is to be ruthless and relentless in our grasping of material affluence to have more "things" or more "convenience", or we can allow ourslves to engage in rather more abstract pusuits (such as being a railfan, protecting the landscape, or caring for others) There's no right answer, but we can and should say how we want to live.

Finally, if you want the most tendentious and opinionated news reporting from the UK then go to the Daily Mail, otherwise steer well clear! Again it all depends on whether you seek to have prejudices confirmed or to be exposed to some thoughtful ideas.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/28/15 05:26 by spflow.

tomstp Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Politicians are hardly good at anything except
> dodging questions and telling lies and half
> truths,  fattening their own pockets, and trying
> to get re-elected..

I would suggest that by and large we generally get the politicians we deserve. They dodge questions and tell lies and half truths because they are like most of us.

86235 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> tomstp Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Politicians are hardly good at anything except
> > dodging questions and telling lies and half
> > truths,  fattening their own pockets, and
> trying
> > to get re-elected..
>
> I would suggest that by and large we generally get
> the politicians we deserve. They dodge questions
> and tell lies and half truths because they are
> like most of us.

Exactly!