European Railroad Discussion > French TGV crash

Five people have reportedly been killed and another seven injured after a high-speed train derailed in France.The TGV fast train derailed near the city of Strasbourg before catching fire.It is understood no passengers were on the train, and the incident is not believed to be linked to the terror attacks that occurred in Paris
Read more at http://www.9news.com.au/world/2015/11/15/02/44/five-reportedly-killed-in-high-speed-train-crash-in-france#sA17I0xApeGurtyc.99



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/14/15 14:24 by DKay.

The BBC are reporting 10 deaths among 49 technicians on board a test run.

This was apparently a [ the ? ] dedicated "track geometry"[ in USA-speak ] or infrastructure LGV test train, and the accident occurred at the eastern end of the LGV, where there is a curve with a speed limit.  The aerial photos suggest the classic excessive speed [ which SNCF has said is the case, though without further elaboration to my knowledge] on a restricted curve scenario.

The following are just speculation on French forums at this time:

- The TVM [ = wayside to train speed enforcement ]  may not have been in use, since the test train will often exceed the posted limits on purpose to validate safety margins.  [ Hence, a greater visual appreciation of 'where are we' is necessary.....]

- There may have been some invited family members, including children, on board, thus the relatively high personnel count.

SZ

The BBC site referred to Eckweishim, near Strousburg (hope my spelling is close).
The aerial photo showed it coming off the outside of a curve that looked quite sharp for a regular TGV main line.
The train appears to have shot across the countryside and some of it ended up on the far side of a canal, other units are in the canal.
In going to Google Earth I see what appears to be that site under construction for a new "flying" junction.
A very rough use of the "ruler" tool indicates a curve of about 3600 ft. radius (1000-1100 meters?)
That would be about a 90 MPH curve with adequate superelevation.
If media reports of above 300 kph (186 MPH) are correct, they never had a chance.
Further information would be appreciated.

Strasbourg. All in all, not a good few days for France

Strange news, as this seems to be a phenomenon repeating itself. If I read right various news on this incident the TVM430+ERTMS system was turned off so the crew could look for the safe margins for running the TGV test train. Only running triple the allowed speed to curve sounds like intentionally risking everybody aboard, not a feat of regular research of line usage. It looks like there is no further data on the actual happenings yet. Though the newer TGV locomotive at the front looks intact after rolling and shooting over the canal, knowing what the TGV cab look from inside, I suspect that the engineer was killed. It is a mystery why he drove so fast, full well knowing what will happen at one point or another.  

Previous similar incidents:
- Spain 2 years ago, Talgo(-Bombardier?) high speed unit outran the are of high speed to normal track and resulted in train coming apart. Flying coaches killed a lot of passengers. No active slowing system involved (this is said to have been fixed now at this one point of line).
- Norway 3 years ago: A testing FLIRT2 train ran outside the higher speed line into a poor condition line with triple the speed it was supposed to. Resuls were again severe injuries. 

It strikes me that so many people are intentionally risked in these tests, as there is always a risk of severe accident involved.

1) TGV-cab inside TGV-Dasye (previous type of locomotive). It appears the test unit was equipped with TGV-2N2, TGV-Dasye or TGV-POS locomotives with older 1990s type of single level trailers, norm for any test train as you could not too well visually instpect overhead lines from the two level unit. The location for the unit and locomotive numbers is hidden in the mud, so there is no telling which unit was destroyed (SNCF newer seems to fix severely maimed units). However, a double decked TGV-2N2 #846 has been running on this area, with different special livery vinyls covering it from this unit. 

2) Here is a picture for grilles recognition, so the accident loco is either TGV-2N2, TGV-Dasye or TGV-POS "generation", from the painting and decaling it is wearing SNCF newest standard Carmillion shades, similar to picture, so I'd say it is a 2N2 or POS locomotive.  

3) For possible train type indentification, here is a TGV-POS in its older livery at Paris Gare de l'Est. Until we know the train set number of locomotive unit number, there is no way indentifying the actual type.
 



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/15/15 01:42 by McKey.

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The previous known test train is called TGV-Iris320 and here are a few pictures of it. This is actually the last Thalys-PBKA = TGV-Réseau set in earlier life. Unit was seen for years running for SNCF before being converted for track test train. Iris runs all of the SNCF high speed network through every two weeks, plus Channel tunnel and as far I've read right, the HS1 too in U.K. 

 

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It is also possible to run tests quite safely, as is shown by these pictures

For more info on TGVs, see: http://www.4rail.net/fast_tgv1.php

For hundreds more TGV pictures, please see: http://www.4rail.net/reference_france_gallery2_hsemus.php

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Seeing some more pictures, this involves indeed one of the two test train in the area: TGV-Dasye 744 was destroyed here, along with huge casualties. Seeing more pictures this was a double decked unit, so no swap for trailers and for some reason the Dasye was already painted Carmillion, despite being about 5 years old or even less.

This will still leave TGV-2N2 #846 as a second test train (with tricolor vinyls) in place. I do hope this time the arrangements will be made so that like on any airplane testing there are just two pilots aboard and the cockpit is equipped with catapult seats (though I suspect this might pro ve difficult to design with all the wires and catenary poles around...). Really strange that this train was not remotely observed, and instead everyone was sitting aboard despite the dangers in maximum speed tests.

Some pictures of TGV-Dasye sets. 700 series runs inside France and into Spain. The unit involved is indeed the same one as in the first picture.

More pic can be fiund at: http://www.4rail.net/reference_france_gallery2_hsemus.php#sncf_tgv-dasye 

 

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Two of the important rail magazines have put more information online, some of which (describing the train types) is faulty. However, it is obvious:

1) That TGV-Dasye unit 744 seriously overshot the end of high speed line (LGV-EST, extension part 2) to curve leading to normal track in Strasbourg, France/Germany. At the moment of derailment the speed of the train was 352 kilometers per hour / 218 mph, quite normal for a test run but very far from max. 176 km/h / 109 mph that should have been used here. The train derailed in curve, turned over to embankment and part of it hit the bridge in curve. End locomotive of TGV-Dasye ended up to canal, actually keeping one of the trailers from collapsing there behind it. 

2) Horrible news: there were kids aboard this train. SNCF is launching an investigation why kids were taken aboard on a _test_run_, which is still a dangerous situation. Some of the kids were injured, at this point it is not known if any were killed.

11 people have so far been killed, 12 seriously injured, 25 less severely, leaving just _one_ unharmed out of the 49 aboard. Truly a black day for French high speed systems.

Below a statue nearby Nice Ville station in Nice, where I took a picture of #744 above, plus pictures of TGV-Dasye #741 and TGV-Dasye #745 sister trains, similarly used between Paris and Nice as the unit 744 was earlier. All pictures from summer 2015.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/16/15 11:19 by McKey.

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