European Railroad Discussion > U.K.: Eurostar e320 Velaros in Traffic?

First of Eurostar long awaited Velaro e320 (British class 374) sets was supposed to be taken into use on November 20th. It would run twice between London and Paris and back that day.

A question to members from around London on this board, did this happen or was it just a rumor?
 

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It may well havwe done so - I saw a unit around mddday at St Pancras on Nov 20, but have not seen one since.

Thank You very much spflow! Interesting that these train units are still "hiding" somewhere, the novelty value would be enormous. And, one would think that the operator would like to test them on real traffic extensively before the Christmas rush is at its worst and just about all customers angry to begin with. 

spflow Wrote:
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> It may well havwe done so - I saw a unit around
> mddday at St Pancras on Nov 20, but have not seen
> one since.

The train I saw was definitely in public servive, with "Paris" illuminated on its destination indicators. Perhaps it didn't work!

Maybe... :/

spflow Wrote:
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> The train I saw was definitely in public servive,
> with "Paris" illuminated on its destination
> indicators. Perhaps it didn't work!

From bits and pieces it appears:
- Eurostar currently runs only one e320 unit per day twice to Paris and back.
- e320 has been spotted in Gare du Nord on regular traffic, so they made it that far ;)
- Some other news talks about "small volume" in December.
- It might be that there will be second daily unit starting too during the December, with production slowly ramping up until the end of next year when all 11 train should be running.
- First connection is London St Pancras to Paris Gare du Nord.

Some more picture from Siemens Mobility.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/01/15 05:23 by McKey.

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I just noticed that Eurostar increased the order for these 902 passenger 320 km/h / 199 mph units to 17, so end of 2016 will not be possible end date to the delivery. That is 272 modules for Siemens to build!

Wonder what the next route will be? London - Lyon? London - Brussels? London - somewhere in Germany? 

More likely the long mooted route to Amsterdam. And yes the units are in regular service now.

Will London-Barcelona work?

Geep Wrote:
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> Will London-Barcelona work?

Only if they don't shut down the Perpignan to Figueres LGV.

The economics of Eurostar operation has been dominated by two issues - safety through the Channel Tunnel, and UK security/Immigration concerns.

Concerns about safety led to the specification of very long trains which could be divided and either half used under power for evacuation, all passengers having transferred through the train from the other half. The overall length was to provide for at least one of the cross-passages between the running and service tunnel, which are at 400 metre spacing, to be opposite part of any train which is stopped. These requirements have been imposed from the outset in 1994 by a special Inter-Government Commission on tunnel safety. It has meant that the only passenger trains permitted through the tunnel were Eurostar sets which are a modified design from a basic French TGV with two power cars and eighteen passenger vehicles. Each set is divided into two halves, each articulated. It may be asked if all this is necessary given the absence of such arrangements in other long tunnels worldwide, and there is clearly doubt as to whether any of this would actually help in case of a fire or similar. The plans have never needed testing in real life, and one point recently been made is that the cross tunnels are in fact not spaced close enough to always guarantee access from any stalled train. The idea of 400 passengers moving from from one half the train to the other also raises some eyebrows. To me it seems a bit like the whistle on aircraft lifebelts - it may sound a good idea but could it actually help?

A standard TGV unit, even two coupled together, would not be permitted even though it would be technically compatible on both sides of the Channel.  Many destinations which might justify an eight car train have thus been ruled out, as has the option of a train from London dividing at, say, Lille or Brussels with portions for two different destinations. The only real benefit that the new Siemens units have is they are at least built to the standard Velaro profile as they are not expected to run on the rest of the standard UK network with its reduced loading gauge. Clearly such special case trains are significantly more expensive.

The issue of security/immigration (which is hopelessly intertwined amidst a fog of panic and xenophobia) has meant that through trains to the UK since the Tunnel have required full facilities for security and immigration checks before boarding. This has led to the absurd situation at Paris Nord, where international trains for at least four countries leave from ordinary platforms, with the usual straightforward boarding up to 30 secs before departure, while trains to Britain require a 30 minute check-in, and bags etc have to go through scanners while passports must be shown. The UK Immigration service has refused to either undertake checks onboard the train (as has always happened elsewhere when immigration controls were in force) or to provide staff and facilities at distant stations to check passengers before boarding. Use of trains for domestic travel while on the Continent is also precluded.

All of this goes to explain why Eurostar services have been confined to London-Paris and London-Brussels. with Lille as an additional intermediate stop. The experimental service to Marseilles (once a week in winter) requires everyone to get off at Lille with their luggage and re-board after checks - the total delay is around an hour!  This is hardly popular given the already long travel time from South of France. It can only be the worsening conditions of air travel that has permitted any of this to be tolerated. Surprisingly the London-Paris market share is now 80% rail.

My guess is that services to other destinations, like Amsterdam, Koln, Strasbourg, Zurich and even Barcelona, while all technically feasible, will not emerge while present preoccupations and anxieties dominate thinking.



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 12/02/15 08:52 by spflow.

€xcellent analytics, very interesting!

I recall that when Eurostar services started UK Border Force staff DID ride on the trains, carrying out immigration checks. I remember returning from Belgium in 1997 seeing a young man being arrested on board with what the immigration staff thought was a forged passport.

SOO6617 Wrote:
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> Geep Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Will London-Barcelona work?
>
> Only if they don't shut down the Perpignan to
> Figueres LGV.

Are you being sarcastic, or is there something to this?

chs7-321 Wrote:
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> SOO6617 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> > Only if they don't shut down the Perpignan to
> > Figueres LGV.
>
> Are you being sarcastic, or is there something to
> this?

There is something to this, but lets hope common sense prevails.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-07-28/hedge-funds-near-end-of-the-line-for-bailouts-with-railroad-bet

But even if the high speed line isn't closed I can't see London to Barcelona working under the current regime. Maybe a weekly holiday train in the summer, but not a regular service. If immigration rules were changed that may affect the economics and make it worthwhile.