European Railroad Discussion > Ramble in South London

Back in June I spent a day rambling around South London mostly on the Southern and the Southeastern, as these are the parts of the London rail network I have ridden least during my time here in London.  This part of the rail network is characterized by dozens of closely spaced junctions that allow a bewildering variety of routings for the trains of the various operators. 

1. Southern Class 455 set approaching Tulse Hill Station at Tulse Hill North Junction.  Train has just emerged from Knight's Hill Tunnel.  Line to the left is used by Thameslink temporarily during rebuilding of London Bridge station.
2.  Southern Class 455 set on the left and Thameslink Class 319 set on the right passing through Tulse Hill South Junction.  Line to the left goes to Crystal Palace. 
3.  The Railway Tavern just outside Tulse Hill Station - good place for lunch with nice large garden out back and good Sunday roast!
 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/15/16 05:09 by dwatry.

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4.  Southern Class 455 set at Tulse Hill South Junction coming off Crystal Palace line.
5.  Southeastern Class 375 at Herne Hill North Junction approaching Herne Hill Station.
6.  Southeastern Class 465 approaching Herne Hill South Junction on the line from Beckenham Junction.  I have shots with the train closer but I love the complex of trackwork in the foreground!
 

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7.  Thameslink Class 387 approaching Herne Hill.
8.  Thameslink set at Orpington South Junction.  The encroaching vegetation reminds me of the last days of the Penn Central. 
9.  Southeastern 375 set at Orpington.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/15/16 00:08 by dwatry.

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10.  Southern Class 455 approaching Norwood Junction station.
11.  Southern Class 455 at West Norwood Station.
12.  Southern Class 455 (right) and Class 377 (left) at East Croydon. 
 

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Duncan

The class 375 train in the middle photo (#5) looks a lot like the running stock for the London Overgorund. Are they essentially the same equipment?

Thanks
Neil

dwatry Wrote:
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> 4.  Southern Class 455 set at Tulse Hill South
> Junction coming off Crystal Palace line.
> 5.  Southeastern Class 375 at Herne Hill North
> Junction approaching Herne Hill Station.
> 6.  Southeastern Class 465 approaching Herne Hill
> South Junction on the line from Beckenham
> Junction.  I have shots with the train closer but
> I love the complex of trackwork in the
> foreground!
>  

I believe they are all the same "family", with some differences within the family.  All are built by Bombardier and are all part of the "Electrostar" family of cars, but the Overground stock is Class 378.  Overground stock has all longitudinal seating, but there are probably other differences.   I'm guessing Nick knows the differences! 

dwatry Wrote:
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> 1. Southern Class 455 set approaching Tulse Hill
> Station at Tulse Hill North Junction.  Train has
> just emerged from Knight's Hill Tunnel.  Line to
> the left is used by Thameslink temporarily during
> rebuilding of London Bridge station.

You are right that the routings can be very confusing. The line accessed by the tracks on the left will still be used for Thameslink trains, just not those coming from the Brighton Main Line. These will revert to running via London Bridge. Services on the Wimbledon loop will still head off left from Tulse Hill to Herne Hill, although they will be on the left hand pair of the four tracks at the station rather than using the tracks in your photo.

dwatry Wrote:
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> I'm guessing Nick knows the
> differences! 

Not really, they are marketed as Capitalstars by Bombardier, they most closely resemble the class 376 on Southeastern, except that the latter has conventional seating and doesn't have the full width gangways between cars, which the 378s pioneered here. As I think has been said before they would have benefited from three sets of double doors per car and not two, but the body design of the Star series of units could not be adapted for an extra set without significant redesign. Something closer to the London Underground S stock would probably have been preferable for the Overground.

Incidentally there are some new Electrostars roaming the rails, a new build of 387/1s for Great Western, here's a pair of them out on test in third rail territory on Thursday

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I just like the tunnel portal. Classic Victorian. When was the line put in?

Posted from iPhone

CPRR Wrote:
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> I just like the tunnel portal. Classic Victorian.
> When was the line put in?
>
> Posted from iPhone

In 1868, so classic mid-Victorian period.The elaborate style was no doubt required by the landowners, Alleyn's College, under whose ground the tunnel was bored. Their's is the coat of arms over the entrance.

This is a lovely set of pictures whcih really capture some of the qualities of the South London network. It is worth noting tha the 19th century companies which operated south of London were much more dependent upon passenger traffic for their income than some of the main lines to teh north and west. As a result they were much more interested in building suburban loops and branches, which were essential for revenue. When in the 20th century the Underground system was expanded, much oppostion was received from these operators in the south and east, hence the overwhelming bias of the LT system towards northwest London.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/17/16 13:26 by spflow.

spflow Wrote:
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> CPRR Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I just like the tunnel portal. Classic
> Victorian.
> > When was the line put in?
> >
> > Posted from iPhone
>
> In 1868, so classic mid-Victorian period.The
> elaborate style was no doubt required by the
> landowners, Alleyn's College, under whose ground
> the tunnel was bored. Their's is the coat of arms
> over the entrance.

I was struck by the similarity with the south portal of the Sydenham Tunnel that faced Crystal Palace High Level station, built by the London, Dover & Chatham and opened in 1865, even though the Knight's Hill Tunnel was built by the London, Brighton & South Coast. Was this perhaps due to the contractor determining the style, rather than the railway?

Below is a photo of the Sydenham Tunnel as it appeared in 2011. 

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I suspect as spflow said that it was the landowner, Alleyns School (Dulwich College), which required the decorative portals. All bridges carrying the railway over public roads in and around Dulwich are also very decorative, at the insistence of the landowner.