Railroaders' Nostalgia > The "Dutch" drop

First, thanks to Todd for putting this Discussion forum on here...it should prove interesting to all--not just us rails...

So, I was taught by some very good old heads (and a few not so good ones) back at the end of the days when the railroads company policy seemed to be "get the freight moved however you want, but don't get hurt." I was over visiting a retired engineer I am good friends with, and he was telling me of a dutch drop that went very badly, and ended up ripping off the corner of an old "covered wagon" as he called them..not just a static drop (where the engine is stopped and you run the car out ahead of it at a trailing point switch) or a running drop (where you use the engine to move the car, duck in the clear and run the car by on momentum at a facing point switch)...but a dutch drop as I was taught was a whole different animal, involving a running drop and then getting reversing into a trailing point switch to get in the clear , and getting the car by--all without running anything into anything else!

SO, is the dutch drop a local (NYC territory I work on) name something you other rails have heard? I've heard the term used to describe a standard flying switch, and the above mentioned situation...Anyone have any stories to share? I'll add one here in a bit, now that the parties involved are either retired or passed on...

By the way, most railroads now prohibit ANY of the above described situations--

This used to be common on the Sante Fe branch from Dodge City to Boise City. I have heard many stories and have seen some 8mm video of crews doing this to spot hoppers at grain elevators in Hugoton Ks. It is quite a site and really shows the skill and trust between the crew members. I don't know if I have ever heard it called anything else.
Thanks for sharing!

Posted from BlackBerry

I worked for NYC-PC-CR and we only called it just a "drop".

The term "Dutch drop" was used on the SP in Texas as long as there was an SP back in the days when drops were allowed.

Your Definition of a dutch drop is as it was described on the SP/UP in California. As late as 2002 I was involved with doing this in an undisclosed location. Standing at a switch watching a cut of cars rolling towards your power and seeing your power moving toward the cars and the switch and being the only thing to keep them from coming together is not a fun a place to be. Eventually we started splitting the power to complete the move with one unit ducking in the clear and the other pushing and pulling to get around the train. Much safer but more time consuming.

RollinB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The term "Dutch drop" was used on the SP in Texas
> as long as there was an SP back in the days when
> drops were allowed.

I seem to remember using "dutch drop" on Pacific Lines as well....but golly that was a looooong time ago.

JBWX

I've seen a dutch drop performed as well, can't say who or where but they did it last spring. Takes some skill and very good judgement, I'll tell you that.

Like those above, on the PE and the SP, there were drops, then there were "Dutch" drops. The dutch was a real bear if anything went wrong.

V

SLOCONDR

"...The dutch was a real bear if anything went wrong."

Like beets carpeting the RofW at San Ardo.

sphogger

> Like beets carpeting the RofW at San Ardo.
>

Oh? That'd be a story I'd love to hear!
"THe following is true, the names have been changed to protect the guilty parties!"

I was riding with a local crew that tried to do a drop, and the freight car hung up across the switch. Now THAT was a problem for the crew! I'm not sure I've ever seen what's being called a "Dutch drop", and I'm not sure I ever want to.

Dutch drop and gravity drop are defined in this thread- <http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?1,2005740,2006502#msg-2006502&gt;

Here's an older one that has several examples from SPLoopConductorLarry, from Down Under, and with help from gravity. It also talks about the "Pickels" at San Ardo- <http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?11,724723,726298#msg-726298&gt;

mapboy

The move at San Ardo was for eastbound (south) trains. The train was stopped on the main to hold the loads, power cut off and headed in towards the loads in the beet dump. The loaded cars were gathered up, 16 or 18 cars if I remember right. They were given a tug to get them rolling westward on the significantly downhill grade towards the train. The pin was pulled and the power highballed out to the main. Once clear of the switch the power would head eastward down the main, once clear the switch again it was lined back to allow the cars to roll out to a joint against the train. Meanwhile lots of muscle was being applied to handbrakes in a effort to control the speed of those loaded beet gons. Occasionally the trainmen weren't fast enough or the handbrakes didn't work so well. The resulting hard joint on those overloaded beet gons sent beets flying everywhere. It was a little nerve wracking. Timing was everything ;-)

sphogger

DrLoco Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> First, thanks to Todd for putting this Discussion
> forum on here...it should prove interesting to
> all--not just us rails...
>
> So, I was taught by some very good old heads (and
> a few not so good ones) back at the end of the
> days when the railroads company policy seemed to
> be "get the freight moved however you want, but
> don't get hurt." I was over visiting a retired
> engineer I am good friends with, and he was
> telling me of a dutch drop that went very badly,
> and ended up ripping off the corner of an old
> "covered wagon" as he called them..not just a
> static drop (where the engine is stopped and you
> run the car out ahead of it at a trailing point
> switch) or a running drop (where you use the
> engine to move the car, duck in the clear and run
> the car by on momentum at a facing point
> switch)...but a dutch drop as I was taught was a
> whole different animal, involving a running drop
> and then getting reversing into a trailing point
> switch to get in the clear , and getting the car
> by--all without running anything into anything
> else!

PRSL guys called it a Dutch Drop ... that's how my pop got knocked off the side of a tank car side ladder by the engine handrail fell in the 6 foot and got hit in head by the stirrups ... he survived went back to work 9 months later ... he working with an extra engineer that didn't know to wait to reverse until after the car passed because of close clearance ...

there was another area in Camden on the siding off the passenger main where they needed to dutch drop cars off the grade ... what made it tricky was there was only 3 cars lengths on the tail track before the car hit dirt berm or went over it into the street




> SO, is the dutch drop a local (NYC territory I
> work on) name something you other rails have
> heard? I've heard the term used to describe a
> standard flying switch, and the above mentioned
> situation...Anyone have any stories to share?
> I'll add one here in a bit, now that the parties
> involved are either retired or passed on...
>
> By the way, most railroads now prohibit ANY of the
> above described situations--

Back in the bad old days there was a lot of "art" in switching. Whether it was kicking cars, drops, dutch drops, or just reading a switch list and planning the moves, whatever....guys who knew what they were doing could do amazing things, and do them safety....as long as they knew what they were doing. Those were the days when on the job training was the way it was done and it usually took years to get promoted. Today working on a train seems to be more and more a commodity, and switching is not something that can be readily taught on a simulator, or learned in a couple of student trips. Railroading has changed....probably for the better in many ways, but I wonder how much "art" is left. Not to mention the comraderie of the old days. Better, but perhaps less...well...interesting.

JBWX

The old PRR / PC crews on the Eel River line in Indiana would always refer to the procedure as a "Dutch Drop."

Paul

I have a question (since we're talking about cars rolling free)...

Back in the days before my paid railroading career, I would often ride along with the GTW crew on the line from Grand Rapids to Grand Haven (usually the other way). On one westbound trip, we were to stop and help spread ballast on the new spur for the Meijer warehouse. For a westbound move, this was a facing-point switch, IIRC. The ballast car (actually a very ordinary 70-ton triple hopper) was in the new spur. So the engine cut off and went into the spur, and helped spread the ballast (open the door, tie chained in front of the rear truck).
When the crew was done, they were to take the ballast car out with them. This was, as I said, a facing-point spur. So, how to get the car behind the engine?

What they did was pull back onto the main line with the car, and give it a gentle kick back into the spur. The engine then went ahead on the main line to clear the switch. As the car slowed to a stop, the conductor and one brakeman put their shoulders into it, and got it to move in the opposite direction, out onto the main line and against the train. The engine just backed onto his train (now including the hopper), made the hoses, and highballed.

So what would this move be called? It was done very smoothly, and without any prior discussion that I was aware of, suggesting that the knew what needed to be done and exactly how to do it. (Nowadays one would need to hold a "job briefing" before tackling a move like this, and it would undoubtedly be prohibited anyway.)

Carl Shaver
Lombard, IL

I would call it a variation of a "static drop", where the car rolled on its own due to gravity.

A static "muscle" drop is what I would call that...we've had to use...um...humanpower to get cars to move that hang up on the switch during a static drop...thankfully roller bearings are required nowadays!

Dutch drops and the like were the reason older cars had "Pole pockets" on the corners and locomotives carried "Poles" on the side of the tender.
Cross ties work too but are hard to hold up to the car and loco to get the plush required to clear the missed drop.