Railroaders' Nostalgia > Abandoning SP&S: A Tale of 20,000 Ties

I spent a lot of 1987 being the day Asst Chief Dispatcher on the BN Spokane Division. My railroad was Whitefish - Wenatchee, Spokane - Pasco, the branch lines in Eastern WA, ID, and BC, and work train service headquartered in Spokane.

A few years before (don't remember exactly when, but we were still in King Street Station, so it was a few), one of the dispatchers came across a marked up track chart showing the proposed CTC of the NP side and abandonment of the SP&S between Spokane and Pasco. Many of us told management it wasn't going to work. The response was invariably: it's none of your business.

Summer of 1987 came and Someone Somewhere decided that maybe it was time to do some maintenance on SP&S between Spokane and Pasco. The last time there was a rail or tie program, steam engines were still using the track. 20,000 ties were sent to Spokane for distribution between Spokane and Washtucna.When they arrived, I set up a work train for five or more days tie up on line daily. The work train spent weeks distributing ties. They finished, returned to Spokane, and I abolished the assignment.

The next week, I received instructions to order a work train to pick up 20,000 ties between Spokane and Washtucna. Someone decided that they really needed the ties worse between Crossport and Leonia than between Spokane and Washtucna. I ordered another five days or more tie up on line assignment. The spent a month or so picking up the 20,000 ties that were just distributed, taking them to the Kootenai Canyon, and distributing them. The work was finished and they took the power and caboose back to Spokane. I abolished the assignment.

During the next week, FRA inspectors visited the SP&S between Spokane and Washtucna and shut it down. The track wasn't even Class 1. I received instructions to order a work train to pick up 20,000 ties between Crossport and Leonia and distribute them between Spokane and Washtucna. They also wanted another work train for concrete tie installation between Crossport and Leonia.

I ordered the work train to move the ties from Kootenai Canyon to SP&S. They spent about a month doing that. When the job was complete, the power and caboose came back to Spokane and I abolished the job.

The next week, I was told that the SP&S would be abandoned, order a work train to pick up the ties. When that's complete, send the ties to Lincoln. I ordered another work train. They picked up the ties and I had them shipped to Lincoln.

Showtime for the new CTC-enabled fully improved NP line between Spokane and Pasco. As we told them years earlier, it didn't work. The capacity of the line was nowhere near what was needed to run all of the traffic without massive congestion and delay. At one point, BN approached Department of Natural Resources about using the abandoned and removed UP line between Connell and Kahlotus to connect SP&S to NP and avoid Burr Canyon west of Washtucna. The answer from DNR was a resounding NO. Ok, uh, no it is. They went to plan B, putting a railroad back where they had removed it, for the whole distance between Spokane and East Pasco. Well, it turns out that they overlooked the fact that they didn't own the property (see the tale of Grand Central Station in Chicago and BN attempting to sell property in Seattle that they didn't own). When the track was removed, easements ended and the right of way reverted to the owners.

Since then, there have been several capital projects between Spokane and Pasco to create the capacity needed to run the traffic. More are pending.

The ties? I don't have a clue what happened to them at Lincoln. Maybe they are still out there somewhere, being distributed and picked up over and over, kind of a railroad Flying Dutchman.

TAW

I know it wasn't funny to you at the time but, I laughed my butt off reading about it!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/19/14 12:08 by tomstp.

Did this occur during the WFT era?

CCDeWeese Wrote:
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> Did this occur during the WFT era?

Dim memory, I think he was gone but his well-indoctri...er...uh...trained proteges were firmly in control

Folks on the outside think that BN took over Frisco. Bzzzzzzt Wrong Answer.

TAW

Wow. Seems like BN in the PNW (and maybe system wide) was being run by a bunch of buffoons. From what I remember this was during a time when BN was hellbent on finding ways to reduce labor costs and ordering locomotives not painted for BN but painted/lettered LMX and Oakway.


Allen

bradleymckay Wrote:
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> Wow. Seems like BN in the PNW (and maybe system
> wide) was being run by a bunch of buffoons. From
> what I remember this was during a time when BN was
> hellbent on finding ways to reduce labor costs and
> ordering locomotives not painted for BN but
> painted/lettered LMX and Oakway.
>
>
> Allen


This was when the Frisco oops, BN was hell bent on selling the railroad in pieces. "it's all for sale in the WSJ in mid 1985".

Pete Ascher of Great Western Railway in Colorado tried to buy the C%S from Ft Collins to Utah Jct

bradleymckay Wrote:
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> Wow. Seems like BN in the PNW (and maybe system
> wide) was being run by a bunch of buffoons.

(1.) It certainly wasn't limited to BN.

(2.) It certainly wasn't limited to the PNW.

(3.) It certainly wasn't / isn't limited to the time frame mentioned by the original poster.

Post Staggers, the railroads were too hellbent on ripping up track, once they had the opportunity. I heard a story that CSX had to re-lay a line in Florida because the main office wanted it gone. Only later was it discovered there was a BIG shipper on the line that justified its existence.

bradleymckay Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wow. Seems like BN in the PNW (and maybe system
> wide) was being run by a bunch of buffoons. From
> what I remember this was during a time when BN was
> hellbent on finding ways to reduce labor costs and
> ordering locomotives not painted for BN but
> painted/lettered LMX and Oakway.

exactly

Quoting Jolson: and you ain't heard nothin' yet.

Working for BN in the 80s was hard for those of us who knew how to railroad.

TAW

The late 80's seemed to be the beginning of totally incompetent managers bringing in more incompetent college and buddy types to cover the higher ups total ignorance of what was going on. It continues today and is normally covered by frequent promotions to remove the offending 'idiot' from his or her latest screw up.

I had an offer from the BN to join them as an economist in late 1982. I took a wave-off as I did not want any more snow and they were still in the Twin Cities then. I often wonder "what-if?"

John Gezelius
Tustin, CA

john1082 Wrote:
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> I had an offer from the BN to join them as an
> economist in late 1982. I took a wave-off as I
> did not want any more snow and they were still in
> the Twin Cities then. I often wonder "what-if?"


Trade off: heat and ice storms. Take your pick

WAF Wrote:
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> john1082 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I had an offer from the BN to join them as an
> > economist in late 1982. I took a wave-off as I
> > did not want any more snow and they were still
> in
> > the Twin Cities then. I often wonder
> "what-if?"
>
>
> Trade off: heat and ice storms. Take your pick

I practice in California so we have drought & earthquakes

John Gezelius
Tustin, CA

Despite the CA hate on this site, I'd take California any day John. B

After reading this and TAW's other BN tales, I'm starting to re-think the historical judgement on Penn Central...

tomstp Wrote:
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> I know it wasn't funny to you at the time but, I
> laughed my butt off reading about it!


Yes I agree, some years back think in the late 90s a friend and I walked several of the tunnels south of Kahlotus. The first one south is I think the longest of them. Being very dark inside about half way thru it we ran onto a ledge left from lining the tunnel. Seems it must have been a hiding place for section gangs as there was a table built out of nice fresh ties and I think some chairs made out of the same but there it was and probably still is. Its guarded in the summer by rattle snakes so take your chances when going into it.

Not limited to railroads. I have had many well known tech and medical companies as clients over the last 15+ years and some of the decisions made are MINDBOGGLING.

The way it looks to me quite often, after dealing with this for so long, is that most companies are not run for the benefit of the customers or the employees. They are run for the benefit of the shareholders, and those high enough in management to rate shares and large bonuses, and operated sometimes to the detriment of the customers and employees.

Z

zephyrus Wrote:
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> The way it looks to me quite often, after dealing
> with this for so long, is that most companies are
> not run for the benefit of the customers or the
> employees. They are run for the benefit of the
> shareholders, and those high enough in management
> to rate shares and large bonuses, and operated
> sometimes to the detriment of the customers and
> employees.
>

The strategic decisions made by the Bungleton (as I call the 1980s BN) were hardly good for the shareholders. The Frisco men were way out of their element.

Best regards,

Rob L.

rob_l Wrote:
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> zephyrus Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> > The way it looks to me quite often, after dealing
> > with this for so long, is that most companies are
> > not run for the benefit of the customers or the
> > employees. They are run for the benefit of the
> > shareholders, and those high enough in management
> > to rate shares and large bonuses, and operated
> > sometimes to the detriment of the customers and
> > employees.
> >
> The strategic decisions made by the Bungleton (as
> I call the 1980s BN) were hardly good for the
> shareholders. The Frisco men were way out of their
> element.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Rob L.

Rob,

Hadn't heard the term Bugleton before but it does sum some of the issues up.

Hearing about the "Frisco Guys" at the BN is like hearing about the "MoPac Guys' at the UP.

J.

TAW Wrote:
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> Working for BN in the 80s was hard for those of us
> who knew how to railroad.
>
> TAW

Amen and +1000!

BSB

This whole discussion makes me want to look up my copies of "Parkinson's Law" and "Up the Organization".