Railroaders' Nostalgia > "You can't do that!"

When the first Gulf War was started in 1990 the company wanted to do something to recognize Union Pacific Railroad employees who called up. After some discussion it was decided we would camouflage a locomotive in desert warfare colors. We were surprised there apparently was no manual on how do that, so we recruited help from an Army base near our shop in North Little Rock, Ark. to guide our painters. They had a great time in what was a free-hand effort, even painting the bell which I thought was a neat touch. "Desert Storm" ended before it was ready, so we renamed the locomotive "Desert Victory".

When one of our lawyers asked me what we were going to do with it I told him. He was horrified and declared: "You can't do that!"

When it was rolled out of the shop we flew down to North Little Rock to check it out. From left, sporting our new camo ball caps are myself, John Prescott and Rene Orosco. John worked with me in the communications department and I believe Rene was the company ombudsman at the time. The unit led many trains, including a passenger special, for many accident-free months before it was repainted into UP yellow. I believe it was the first one on the system with ditch lights. I was told it was popular with the crews who kept the cab unusually clean.

John Bromley
Omaha, Nebraska

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Always thought that paint job was a nice salute to your folks that were also citizen soldiers! Why did the lawyer have a conniption fit?

Bruce

The lawyer was afraid that if the unit was ever in a grade crossing accident we would loose any suit because we made it hard to see. He had a point. That's why ditch lights were added.
JB

Before I even opened the thread, the title of the thread caused a question to arise in my naturally "smart-alecky" mind: And just why can't we do (whatever it is we can't or shouldn't be doing)?

Thanks for the picture and anecdote John, but I'd still like to know the answers to both questions: what exactly is it he objected too and why? LOL

Greg

PS/Edit: thanks for the answer you posted while I was still writing this.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/06/14 12:56 by SWChief.

What a great looking paint scheme. I really don't think the lawyer had a valid point. While I have seen photos of this engine in the desert from the side and it really does blend in to the surroundings, people don't get hit by the side of a train. They get hit by the front, and with all of those headlights, a train is hard to miss no matter what color the paint is. If you say that people do run into the sides of trains, then running into a black tank car or many of the other black locomotive paint schemes that are on the nations railroads (have those lawyers ever heard of Norfolk Southern, or Illinois central?) would be far easier if paint color had anything to do with it.

Of course, if a lawsuit arose, then simple logic sometimes gets left out of the courtroom.

I was on the unit a number of times and people always took notice of it. There were/are schemes that were far less visible than the Desert Storm unit.

Just to "finish" the story, the UP 3593 continued to serve the Union Pacific until January of 2003. It was the sold (probably not directly from the UP) to Iowa, Chicago and Eastern (ICE) were it became ICE 6426 where it still roams the rails today as far as I know as part of the Canadian Pacific.

Thanks for the answer! At the risk of offending -- I always have thought that lawyers made/make good wheel chocks. My former employer has a law school and I am convinced they require their students to set their commonsense aside before admittance! But then again, maybe I am confusing the law with commonsense!

Bruce
Donning his Nomex in mid-Missouri!

Don't get me wrong. I paid a lot of attention to our lawyers. I went through more depositions than I care to remember.
JB

JB: Just courious. Why would they being taking depositions from a PR man? You didn't design crossings, signals, teach engineers,etc.

tomstp Wrote:
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> JB: Just courious. Why would they being taking
> depositions from a PR man? You didn't design
> crossings, signals, teach engineers,etc.

My guess would be that somebody had to speak for the Company, and the most likely is the PR person. I imagine many companies have PR guys, that have to answer those tough questions, when necessary.

tomstp Wrote:
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> JB: Just courious. Why would they being taking
> depositions from a PR man? You didn't design
> crossings, signals, teach engineers,etc.

Mostly related to our mergers. Variety of other things, including the Licensing program.
JB

John, when I was a MYO in Los Angeles in the early 90s, I had this picture on my cubicle wall that was taken by my my good friend, Bob Gottier, of the Desert Storm (Victory) unit on Cajon Pass. I had a conductor walk in my office and seeing the pictured asked what it was. I told him about the unit and how the names of all the UP employees that were in the war were painted on the plaques on the sides of the unit. He told me that he had just got back from the war and asked if his name was on there. I told him I didn't know for sure but I would find out and called you right then and there to ask if you knew. I had the conductor talk to you and he was so thrilled when you said his name was on it and would send him some pictures of the unit and the plaque with his name on it.
I ran into the conductor just a few months ago in Long Beach and he remembered the incident and proudly has the pictures still hung on his wall at home.-BMT



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/07/14 15:53 by UPNW2-1083.

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I don't know if that was the start, but definitely that was followed by many totally cool publicity coups and tributes from Uncle Pete to others on the diesels.

The long-lived and incredibly ballsy steam program continues to amaze in this day and age. CSX needs to raid the B&O Museum and get one of its own monsters back in steam.

UPNW2-1083 Wrote:
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> John, when I was a MYO in Los Angeles in the early
> 90s, I had this picture on my cubicle wall that
> was taken by my my good friend, Bob Gottier, of
> the Desert Storm (Victory) unit on Cajon Pass. I
> had a conductor walk in my office and seeing the
> pictured asked what it was. I told him about the
> unit and how the names of all the UP employees
> that were in the war were painted on the plaques
> on the sides of the unit. He told me that he had
> just got back from the war and asked if his name
> was on there. I told him I didn't know for sure
> but I would find out and called you right then and
> there to ask if you knew. I had the conductor talk
> to you and he was so thrilled when you said his
> name was on it and would send him some pictures of
> the unit and the plaque with his name on it.
> I ran into the conductor just a few months ago in
> Long Beach and he remembered the incident and
> proudly has the pictures still hung on his wall at
> home.-BMT

I really appreciate your note! It was all worth while.

John Bromley
.

I have to say that a company official would follow up with a conductor to make sure he was recognized was a great act. I wish some of the current day managers at the railroad would learn the traditions and pride of the railroad (and of the pride and respect for fellow working men). Thanks, Copy 19, for keeping the tradition alive.
I'd love to hear you expand on the UP Licensing situation in a separate thread someday, but I fear some here would jump on you for their perceived "injustice" in having to pay extra for a model that bears likeness to your copyrighted logos and heralds.

Copy19 Wrote:
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> I believe it was the
> first one on the system with ditch lights.

>
> John Bromley
> Omaha, Nebraska


John,

I would contest this point.

When UP and CP commenced the run through from Lethbridge Alberta to Hinkle Oregon around 1978, there were eight UP SD40-2's which were outfitted with ditch lights in order to be approved for Canadian run through operation. I do not have the numbers to hand.

Concurrently, there were 8 CP Rail units with rotary beacons outfitted to meet UP guidelines.

Rick

Rick

Southern Pacific had the first camo units. These were standard red and grey SP colors painted with a new more environment friendly paint. The paint had a problem and pealed on all of the units exposing the tan primer in a camo pattern.

usmc1401 Wrote:
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> Southern Pacific had the first camo units. These
> were standard red and grey SP colors painted with
> a new more environment friendly paint. The paint
> had a problem and pealed on all of the units
> exposing the tan primer in a camo pattern.


I thought the standard SP colors were primer and soot?

"3rdswitch" posted the classic SP Desert Storm unit photo in 2008:

http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?11,1756937,1757450#msg-1757450

I think it was EPA inspired water based paint that yielded these results. Some of
our mid-80's automobiles peeled off in sheets too.

sphogger