Railroaders' Nostalgia > San Joaquin Daylight brakeman, porter in 1968: who?

I took this shot from the vestibule of #52 (San Joaquin Daylight) at Lathrop in June, 1968. It's always been one of my personal favorites.

Does anyone have any idea of who the brakeman, or the porter might be?

- E.O.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/19/14 19:11 by hogheaded.

---

Not sure who these guys are. Other crew may have been engineer Corgiat with Chester Wampler conducting.

http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?11,1904475,1904476#msg-1904476

Maybe this is the guy DJ Russell busted for being rude to his sister when she asked him for the time. Lol.

Sphogger

>
> Maybe this is the guy DJ Russell busted for being
> rude to his sister when she asked him for the
> time. Lol.

Well, this brakeman certainly has a Murph Defeterios-like no-nonsense, look to him, eh?

I believe that it was on this particular trip, somewhere east of Bakersfield, the conductor received a message - not a train order, mind you, just an unsigned message on a plain piece of paper stating, "C&E #52. You are instructed to arrive Los Angeles no less than one hour late," or wording close to that. There was no mystery about what was going on, given that this was 1968. I encountered him having a cup of coffee soon after, and after explaining that I was a railroad nut, he promptly whipped the message out of his pocket in a huff and said, "Take a look at this kid!" I did not know what to make of it. "Well, I've had enough of this %^&*. We're going-in on time, if I can help it!" He somehow conveyed his intentions to the engineer, who was apparently of the same mind, and we arrived in LA nearly on time (the heavy schedule padding in Glendale accounted for much of this). Obviously, the nerve of whomever on-high that sent the message was no match for a couple of old heads. I can only conclude that the train dispatcher was unaware of the skulduggery.

I would ignore it. Not in a train order. Dispatcher could have easily put out an order "No 52 run one hour late Bakersfield to Los Angeles"

WAF Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I would ignore it. Not in a train order.
> Dispatcher could have easily put out an order "No
> 52 run one hour late Bakersfield to Los Angeles"


Yup. You'd do the same thing most of us would have done, Wes.


V

SLOCONDR

I could be wrong as it has been many years
but the brakeman pictured reminds me of
O. K. Setty who worked 53/54 around 1968, 69.

> I could be wrong as it has been many years
> but the brakeman pictured reminds me of
> O. K. Setty who worked 53/54 around 1968, 69.


I shall highlight your suggested identity when I place the photo on the Dome O' Foam.

Thanks!

- E.O.
Wx4.org



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/22/14 20:29 by hogheaded.

> > I would ignore it. Not in a train order.
> > Dispatcher could have easily put out an order
> "No
> > 52 run one hour late Bakersfield to Los
> Angeles"
>
>
> Yup. You'd do the same thing most of us would have
> done, Wes.


Well my story bears a little more explaining, I guess.

Of course, as you guys pointed out, the proper way to instruct a scheduled train is with a "run late" order, which is used to modify a scheduled train's authority. Opposing movements have to respect the new times accordingly. But the message had nothing to do with advancing trains, it had everything to do with discouraging ridership on the San Joaquin Daylight. Since the majority of the route between Bakersfield and LA was CTC or double track (not sure: was the Saugus line still TO's then?), any delay delays to #52 would not necessarily delay opposing traffic , because the dispatcher could arrange meets wherever he pleased, and double track sort of takes care of itself under rule D-251. This is why the dispatcher probably had no clue about what was going on.

Now, consider the conductor's position. He obviously had received this message before, and he probably had a good idea about where it originated. To me, it smacks of the general manager's office. I don't know who the GM was back then, but in later times this would have been Bill Lacey, of Lacey's Raiders fame. One did not go against the wishes of Mr. Lacey with the expectation of keeping one's job. He was one vindictive blankety-blank. In the case of the old conductor on #52, he was doubtlessly way past retirement age, because one needed a lot of whiskers to hold a conductor job on the Daylight. He obviously enjoyed his job and his passengers, or he would have immediately dismissed me, the young kid, as a thorn in his side. This is why he previously put up with the delay thing, for awhile. But at the same time, old troopers of his vintage took FIERCE pride in giving their passengers the best ride that they knew how, not for the company's sake, but rather the passengers'. That is what finally trumped everything else. He knew that, being past pension age, the worst case scenario was that the GM would harass him into retirement.

Sure, any of us could have ignored it, if we were not aware of the consequences that would henceforth be hiding out in the weeds.

Anyway, that's my take on it, and I'm sticking with it.


- E.O.

Oh gosh!!! Remember those workorders and such "Do such-and-so WITHOUT FAIL?" One of my best-friend conductors still tells me: "You can tell me to do A, B, or C. And I'll throw my feet out and I'll get it done. But if you tell me to do it 'WITHOUT FAIL,' I'll FAIL Every Time, and ALWAYS HAVE!!!" LOL!!! ;-)

> Oh gosh!!! Remember those workorders and such "Do
> such-and-so WITHOUT FAIL?" One of my best-friend
> conductors still tells me: "You can tell me to do
> A, B, or C. And I'll throw my feet out and I'll
> get it done. But if you tell me to do it 'WITHOUT
> FAIL,' I'll FAIL Every Time, and ALWAYS HAVE!!!"
> LOL!!! ;-)

Yea, without fail... This is the other side of the coin. If you did not know how to slow down a job without repercussions, you had no business being a railroader.

>If you did not know how to slow down a job without repercussions, you had no business being a railroader.

Never slowed down a job. I worked SAFELY many times, but never slowed down a job.

> Never slowed down a job. I worked SAFELY many
> times, but never slowed down a job.

Amen!

WJL wasn't near the SP when SP ran passenger trains in the late 60s. He was working the SSW

If it was issue through the dispatcher's office, then it would be initialed by Chief. But if it just says run one hour late, whoever wrote this could wipe their ass with it as its not an operating order

> If it was issue through the dispatcher's office,
> then it would be initialed by Chief. But if it
> just says run one hour late, whoever wrote this
> could wipe their ass with it as its not an
> operating order

I still stand by what I said in my second long soliloquy above. Sometimes discretion is the better part of valor.

As a kid, I knew most of the crew Fresno-Oakland, including Conductors Wampler and Shogars, Brakeman Bruce Goss, Engineer B.L. Corgiat. I recognize the face here completely, but can't recall his name. I do believe in terms of railfan kids, he was a "friendly" but I also seem to recall being scolded for an open Dutch door or two.

The Chair Car Porter is definitely recognized too, and his name's also MIA from my memory banks and notes. The SJD crews -- with the exception of one completely sour Brakeman who seemed disgusted by the very air he was breathing and the ground he was standing upon -- most were very friendly, very upbeat, very accommodating to passengers, even as Mr. Russell was working to ax their job. The crews relied to some extent on the SJD's regular fans and riders for scuttlebutt beyond what the Company was telling them about the status of train-off political wheeling and dealing. They could have gotten mean and detached as things dwindled and were shuttered and downgraded around them, during the gradual enforced euthanasia of SP's passenger fleet. But for the most part, they didn't.

The years between 1965 and 1969 were immense in terms of the trains lost to abandonment proceedings. We lost our true rail network then, with only discontiguous wisps and shreds remaining; Amtrak was seen by many as a temporary Band-Aid to stanch the bleeding and buy the railroads out of the public utility business with public money.

That Chair-Baggage combine on the Sacramento connection shows a little feature of old-school grace, courtesy of its somewhat steady assignment to the Sacramento Daylight: full beige vinyl headrest covers on the seats. Most prewar SP "Daylight"-type Chair Cars in general service by this time seemed to have lost theirs, but Trains 53-54 were always a bit of an extra-special and personal job to their crews, I think, and attention was always paid to the little trains with long-term equipment assignments: the "Del Monte", the "Redwood", and this one.

~ BZ

Do you have any photos of H. G. Shogars, Conductor, who worked
the opposite job of Chester Wampler? Shogars had the exact opposite
personality of Chester, very quiet. No one knew his first name.
Thanks in advance for anything you may have available.

BZ-

I'd also be interested in pictures of any of these gentlemen. I'm the same way about names. I can remember the life stories and appearance of dozens upon dozens of guys that I worked with, but for the life of me can't remember their names. Hopefully something will spark your recall at some point, in which case please drop me a PM.

- E.O.

goldcoast Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Do you have any photos of H. G. Shogars,
> Conductor, who worked
> the opposite job of Chester Wampler?

Yes, very quiet, warm and seemed very gentle with his passengers. So many of the holdouts in the nearly-empty train were elderly, and Mr. Shogars was always a pure gentleman. Sadly, I think I have no photos.

And E.O, the link in sphogger's post (first reply above) is a link to a story I posted a while back, with photos of "live wire" Chester Wampler, hoghead B.L. Corgiat (also soft-spoken and friendly), Brakeman Bruce Goss, and a couple other Western Div. hogheads that worked 11-12. And I think that may be it for my crew pics, although I haven't been through everything yet. Thanks!

~ BZ

Responding to ~BZ - The sour brakeman you referred to
had to be Lou Silva.