Railroaders' Nostalgia > Discontent Among SP Employees Following Merger with UP

Over time I have heard numerous discussions/complaints both on TO and from former SP employees themselves, that the merger with Union Pacific was a bad deal for the SP railroaders.

Teo recent posts prompt the following two part question:

http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?18,3539043

http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?11,3537168,3539705#msg-3539705

What were the primary causes of the animosity between the UP and the former SP employees, and did a similar situation exist with the BN/SF merger? Mergers always produce discontent, especially among the ranks of the acquired company and merging of the cultures can be bumpy, but I don't seem to recall as many disgruntled BN/SF employees.

Cheers,
Jack



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 10/14/14 18:42 by africansteam.

BN and ATSF didn't overlap that much so there probably wasn't too much mixing of the cultures.
The impressions I've gotten from reading the stuff here on Train Orders was that the UP managers didn't care how SP did things, you were going to do it their way and that's it.

SP wasn't too thrilled with DRGW's ways of doing things, either

Wasn't a lot of the operational problem caused by the thuggery attitude, the take-over people coming into a yard or terminal shouting orders, changing things, throwing things and throwing things away ( including throwing people out of their job ) mainly because they could or had been told to? Never, never ask how things are done or educate yourself, the gauge is 4 ft 8 1/2 inches therefore this is the way it will be.
Where I worked we compared the mis-management to sea gulls. They flew in, crapped on most everything making a mess and were very noisey and then left just as quickly. Only difference is the RR take over people stick around. Gee, makes you kind of teary eyed doesn't it? :)

I remember the first item of correspondence I received from the UP after the merger, "Welcome to the Union Pacific, severance information will follow". I saved it somewhere and will post.

And yes I remember receiving a letter from UP saying: "We no longer have suitable employment available for you", after my knee surgery in 1999. Of course the UTU legal staff latter explained that this was UP's regular form of employee terrorism and harassment, and it was also just so much BS. At the least they owed me retraining at their expense as well as a suitable job based on whatever disability they "thought" I had. Anyway I framed UP's letter (it still hangs on the wall in my office/den) then applied for full SS disability, which was granted with Medicare included, and took a walk. That was fifteen years ago, and I still receive my RRR check every month like clockwork.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/09/14 15:44 by donsrich.

An employee's geographic location had something to do with it. As an SP employee at Oakland, CA I had heard various stories and warnings of what was going to happen, both good and bad.

Around the time of the merger, UP hosted a series of dinners at a nice restaurant in Jack London Square and I understood that I must attend one. I arrived a little early to scout the situation and get a feel for the event. Outside the restaurant I saw several SP people I knew and some UP people I did not. So I stood next to a lonely, bored looking UP guy and began a conversation in which I did not discuss the UP, just light and general stuff about the local area. There were around 35 or so people at dinner and before long all were introduced. Turned out the guy I had spoken with was a lower level executive from Omaha and I was happy I had not spoken anything amiss. The gist of the meeting was that we were each to decide whether we wanted to remain with the new merged railroad or not and to so advise the UP so that arrangements could be made for termination in the future. I may have completed a brief form there, but I cannot remember. I planned to stay. What was not mentioned was what most, if not all, SP employees suspected. The ICC would likely invoke the New York Dock Agreement, guaranteeing no one would lose his or her job because of the merger, with a 6 year wage guarantee. But in reality, I never heard about the NYDA post merger, at least not where I worked.

One year later (post merger) I attended my first meeting run by the UP. I knew only 2 UP guys and ended up sitting between 2 guys I did not know. Everyone sat at a series of tables in a large U shaped format so all could see each other. I quickly realized that the unknown guy next to me was one of the top men and by very cautiously moving my eyes I could read some notes he had written before the meeting and was adding to a little bit during the morning before our first break. His notes were extremely negative about one of the attendees. I finally saw that the note was a draft meant for a V-P's eyes and covered a list of sins committed by one of their own. The UP employee / subject of the note was fired about 1 year later for cause.

The merger worked well for me in every respect. I always liked the SP and wanted it to continue. Unfortunately that did not seem possible.

africansteam Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Over time I have heard numerous
> discussions/complaints both on TO and from former
> SP employees themselves that the merger with Union
> Pacific was a bad deal for the SP railroaders.
>
>>
> What were the primary causes of the animosity
> between the UP and the former SP employees, and
> did a similar situation exist with the BN/SF
> merger? Mergers always produce discontent,
> especially among the ranks of the acquired company
> and merging of the cultures can be bumpy, but I
> don't seem to recall as many disgruntled BN/SF
> employees.
>
>Good question Jack, and one which I haven't seen discussed in specific detail.
I'm going to put on my flame-proof suit now and wade into what I hope is not
too deadly a mine-field.

First, let me say that I departed SP employment several years prior to the 'take-over', (is that the right word?),
and therefore have no first-hand knowledge of actions by any of the various players involved, but one aspect I would
like to see addressed is the effect on Union Pacific management 'style' in 1996 and later by those in their ranks that came from
the Missouri Pacific component. I have some limited experience dealing with both UP and MOP local managements while
I was working at BN's Murray yard in Kansas City between 1985-88. In a nut-shell it was like difference between night and day.
The UP supervisors on the whole were very cooperative and willing to work with us to our mutual benefit. The MOP trainmasters,
on the other hand were generally a 'fire-breathing', 'hard talking' bunch that proved very difficult to work with. No, don't
ask for specifics; its been too long but I have, since that experience, wondered just where that hard-nosed attitude
originated. Was it part of the MOP culture? Did it come from the top? Did some or all of the difficulties associated with
the SP-UP marriage come from that culture?.

Maybe I'm all wrong and those I dealt with in KC were the exception. Just my thoughts.

I was working on the BN at the time of the ATSF merger. Since I was working in Washington state, far from the physical
world of the ATSF I didn't see any issues, if they can be called that, associated with that merger. I'm sure others such
as train dispatchers might have their own opinion about this. Our operating craft labor agreements were left pretty much
intact hence not much grumbling from the TY&E ranks. Not the case in the SP-UP example.

I'll take the suit off now and await others that were closer to the action to wade-in here but again I have wondered just
how much grief with my SP and UP brothers has been caused by a corporate culture that puts 'My way or the highway'
ahead of a spirit of accommodation and cooperation.

Charlie

I was called to pilot #2 from Colton to LA via the UP Los Angeles sub a few times right before the merger. I met #2 at a little shanty next to the main line in Colton. While I waited for The Sunset, I read a lot of the graffiti on the walls of that shanty. Suffice to say most of the graffiti was written by SP crews and the language toward the UP would have cleared the decks of an aircraft carrier. Nothing toward the UP crews it was just about the UP in general. One note talked about a guy named Roger Spuk the GM in LA. I heard he came over from the MOPAC. Oh well.

Shortly after UP took the SP over here in Oregon (it was not a “merger” in my opinion) they shut the hump in Eugene down and slashed the boards. I just barely did not have the seniority to remain in Eugene so I had to transfer to Portland to work. Fortunately the SP boards in Portland remained independent from the UP boards so I used my seniority to bump into the Brooklyn (Portland) to Eugene Pool. Other than the inconvenience of driving back and forth to Portland to go to work it wasn’t that bad and it only lasted about 2 months before I got back to Eugene to stay. The nice part was that I was “at home” on both ends.

One night in Portland we were bringing our power back to the roundhouse from our train and we got hung up by a yard job. As we sat there another set of power came up to us and stopped short. His conductor called up and asked if they could just couple up to us so we could go to the roundhouse together as a single move; that was fine with me. Once coupled together he came up into my unit and then was surprised to find an “SP man” up there. His first question was how I liked the UP so far. I simply told him, “so far, so good.” His response was, “Just wait, it’ll get worse” – he was right! He was also an older UP guy from pre-MoPac days and he went on about how UP was pretty good before MoPac management got involved.

On another occasion a crew was approaching Portland from Eugene with an SP crew. The crew was on short time and a couple of managers were discussing what to do in front of other employees. When one manager mentioned it was an SP crew the other manager said, “Oh, that’s good; they’ll make it in” reflecting the different attitude in those early days between the SP people (get the work done) and UP people (cover your ass and don’t worry about the work).



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/09/14 17:57 by Railbaron.

Worked for Santa Fe until merger. Little changed with the BNSF name and color change, similarly Los Angeles was far from any BN held territory, local management stayed pretty much the same as well as attitudes. Loved the job right up to the end in summer '09, no complaints here.
JB

All,

In response to whistlepig and Railbaron among others.

It was said by many that the UP was arrogant, and maybe they were. But overheard at Dodge St. a short time after the MoP folks started coming up were two MoP guy saying that the UP succeeded in spite of itself. They apparently went on about how the UP wasted money on things like Dynamic Brakes on the power. The excessive official car fleet, and how rank and file employees needed to learn their places. UP arrogant... maybe but the MoP guy were head and shoulders above them.

J.

I left the SP well before the UP came on, but retain friendship and working relations with many SP vets.
The most consistent theme is that the SP people really wanted to see the railroad (no matter what color the engines were painted) be successful.

When they thought they could attain the goal (i.e. moving trains) and an arbitrary directive from Omaha told them to do their jobs in a manner that assured failure, it was the most negative of all impacts to employee morale (and corporate results).

This is one of "SPLoopConductor's" favorite topics. He can talk all night on this subject. Larry were are you?

Many relatives on my dad's side of the family were pre "MOP-UP" merger UP employees. Except for the occasional "so and so Trainmaster is a horses a**" conversation most liked their jobs and had many good things to say about the railroad. But not after the merger in 1983. They all had heard that upper level MP managers were very anti-union and could be vicious cost cutters. There was probably no MP manager more derisive then Art Shoener...a man who symbolized the so called "Missouri Pacific Mafia".


Allen



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/09/14 22:55 by bradleymckay.

I am going to add my 2 cents.. I noticed on Day 1 (at Taylor Yard) the UP managers came in and anything that said Southern Pacific was immediately thrashed including the large SP maps of the USA. Most of the UP guys in the beginning would drag their feet. The reason why was because the SP had a flat rate in place .. so if you worked 5 minutes or 12 hours you were paid the same . The UP employees were on the 8 hour rate with overtime after 8 hours.. so therefore they were never in a hurry . Once the employees were paid the SP rate they started to get off their asses.

With the merger the UP redrew the seniority districts and home terminals for freight pools.. I worked the Coast pool from LA to San Luis Obispo ..with the merger the home terminal was changed to SLO..

The SP management system, though it was not perfect, was different than the micro managing UP.. Once a year Lacy's Raiders ( The San Francisco group and local management ) would test crews. The UP seems to do the same about every 3 months or sometimes tested more than once a day.

The UP has made and revised many rules.. When I hired out 45 years ago you could put the rulebook in your back pocket. Now days you need a porter to carry the extra books and paperwork.. Rules change daily and also there is a new Superintendent;s bulletin out about once a week. The UP has implemented RCL on yard and local jobs.. just in the LA area there was a loss of 42 engineers jobs.

I have found that the UP power is better and more reliable.. the UP purged the older units.. am sorry to see the SP SW-1500's go to auction. There is probably more to list . Feel free to expound on my list..



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/09/14 19:55 by SanJoaquinEngr.

Prior to the UP/MOP/WP fiasco, excuse me, merger, the UP was not the "bad guy" that they have been portrayed since then. It was the MOP influence and the Jenks culture that infiltrated every part of the UP system that started the arrogance there is today. This has been relayed to me many times over by numerous employees at various levels.

KC - They weren't called "MO-fers" for no reason

whistlepig Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
One note talked
> about a guy named Roger Spuk the GM in LA. I
> heard he came over from the MOPAC. Oh well.

I worked under Roger Spjut in L.A. back in the early 90s as a MYO. He was a UP guy from Portland Oregon not a MOPAC guy. He was strict but all he asked from you was to show up on time and do your job. There were plenty of crew members that butted heads with him but that goes for any manager. He was actually one of the better Senior MTOs I have worked for.-BMT

Back in the summer of '96 when the merger took place I was retired and spent lots of time either sitting in my car watching the action at Newhall yard in San Jose or in some cases, running around in the carryall with yardmaster Russ Danley (after my husband retired from his farming biz in Oct of '96 we both spent a lot of time at Newhall with Russ) but anyway, one day in the summer of '96 a truck drove up and 2 or 3 guys in white UP hard hats got out with what appeared to be drawings/plans etc and ran around pointing at things and making notes on the papers/clipboards and asked questions of whomever was walking around the yard at the time---got back in their truck and left. Never went into the SP office right there where the yardmaster and etc was---------just made their own notes based on what they saw at that time and left.
Res ipse loquiter.
C.

Carol Voss
Bakersfield, CA

UPNW2-1083 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> whistlepig Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> One note talked
> > about a guy named Roger Spuk the GM in LA. I
> > heard he came over from the MOPAC. Oh well.
>
> I worked under Roger Spjut in L.A. back in the
> early 90s as a MYO. He was a UP guy from Portland
> Oregon not a MOPAC guy. He was strict but all he
> asked from you was to show up on time and do your
> job. There were plenty of crew members that butted
> heads with him but that goes for any manager. He
> was actually one of the better Senior MTOs I have
> worked for.-BMT

I agree with you Brian. He wasn't like the others. He did an exceptional job with accurate train lineups. When your phone rang you could look at your watch before answering the phone and know what train you were being called for. Of course extra jobs and dogcatch or patch jobs would pop up. And he got into trouble for calling Art Schoner's protege by his infamous nickname.

whistlepig Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> One note talked
> about a guy named Roger Spuk the GM in LA. I
> heard he came over from the MOPAC. Oh well.

I worked for Roger Spjut out of L.A. long before the merger, and as BMT and Fredo noted, he was pretty okay. Now Superintendent Chacon? He seemed to be the main cause of an ever-widening divide between management and labor on the LA Sub back in those days. It was his regime that made me decide to stay out of management when the opportunity was offered to me back then. I think most of the middle-managers at the time eventually went back to T&E.