Railroaders' Nostalgia > Management by the Numbers?

Reading the discussion about the SP-UP and the Santa Fe and Phil Anchutz adventures of the SP bring this to mind.

I am riding a General Office business car as the Division Engineer, mostly staying silent while the VIPs like the General Manager conduct their daily critique of the previous day's operations on the PBX radio/telephone link. Silent, because we are only making about 20 MPH upgrade on what is probably the best section of track on the SP at the time, the still new Palmdale-Colton Cutoff.

John Ramsey, a Texan & New Orleans man, as maybe an Asst. General Manager (I can't find a Timetable to confirm, can anyone fill in?) is talking to San Antonio where he finds that they ran a 3-unit, 12-car train about 30 miles. "12 CARS! 3 UNITS! 30 MILES! That's the dumbest thing he has EVER heard of!" The Trainmaster or Asst. Superintendent on the other end tried to convince Mr. Ramsey that he had 3 units at Ennis that needed to go to San Antonio where they were short of power, 12 hot cars for California that came late and would miss their connection to a manifest going through Corsicana shortly, and a crew that had to get to Corsicana that morning. So he put 1+1+1=3 together to get the power back into circulation, get the customer's freight on the move, and save the SP the cost of bus or taxi transportation to Corsicana.

Ramsey "reamed him a new one..." and made him promise to never, ever do such an idiot thing in the future, and if he had any doubts, look at the goals for his territory, for the division, and for the company regarding ton-miles per crew start, horsepower per ton, etc.

A little later it dawned on me: The reason for the outrage is that everyone's performance bonus had been whittled down a bit by that original (and to me perfectly obvious) plan. Management by the numbers indeed.

So the SP was quite capable of clumsy management and blind pursuit of abstract goals before the UP showed up and perfected the practice.

Anyone wanting more information on the UP troubles can read Maury Klein's History of the Union Pacific Vol. 3. My one sentence take-away of the era was that the UP failed to nurture the next generation of leaders and managers such that the sleep-walking old head MP managers could move in to fill the void.

If I remember correctly, Mike, Mr. Ramsey was General Manager for awhile in the mid-to late 70s. He made us establish a mini "war room" on the Los Angeles Division that operated 7x24 when things were, shall I say, a tad "dicey" on the entire system. I was pressed into service in the war room and usually worked the 7PM to 7AM shift. Some of the regular HQ managers like Arden Simpson were deployed from San Francisco to Los Angeles to assist. Unfortunately, I was on the receiving end of some of Ramsey's tirades, usually around stuff we had no control over, but did not match the "numbers" that allegedly dictated our direction. The SECIY (Seattle to City of Industry) hot manifest was always a focal point. It had to make the City of Industry hump program and connect with the various haulers that operated from City of Industry to the south branches. If the SECIY didn't make the program, it always ended up being a bad day and I wouldn't get much sleep prior to returning for the next 7PM shift...

JDR was AGM on the T&L before heading west in 1976 to become the Pacific Lines GM when RLK stepped up to VPO

Sounds like Ramsey was a model for one of your book characters, Mike? Klein's book, was that the one 1969 to the end? Good book. Certainly you can see how the UP got where they did today.

Good thing he didn't catch me running 40 units and 4000 tons out of LA to Bakersfield.

http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?1,818639,818686#msg-818686

TAW

Thanks for the update. I did not want to promote JDR in my post to a position above his pay grade.

BTW he came to a sad end, IIRC he was on a runaway horse that passed under a low branch and he suffered severe head injuries.

Be careful out there.

Someone should have told him to duck, lol.

IIRC, he was removed to a quiet spot in the SP world after WWIII began in Houston and retired. Basically, his fault it happened.

railstiesballast Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> BTW he came to a sad end, IIRC he was on a runaway
> horse that passed under a low branch and he
> suffered severe head injuries.


Absolom!

RRTom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> railstiesballast Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > BTW he came to a sad end, IIRC he was on a
> runaway
> > horse that passed under a low branch and he
> > suffered severe head injuries.
>
>
> Absolom!


Which is why despite the great Western tradition, you should wear a helmet when you ride a horse. Seen too head injuries

Where I worked (phone company)I found that when management came up with some stupid rule, the best thing to do was to do exactly what they wanted. It didn't usually take long to "get things fixed."

John

Your story is another example of why I did not want to be in the Operating Department at SP. They had the great paychecks but they also had the great power mongers who sometimes enjoyed making people miserable. More than once I sat in a meeting and was told that when we were on the spot and had to take action, we had better do the right thing (whatever that might be, depending upon the situation) but we had certainly better not chose to do nothing, which could sometimes get you in far deeper trouble.

wa4umr Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Where I worked (phone company)I found that when
> management came up with some stupid rule, the best
> thing to do was to do exactly what they wanted.
> It didn't usually take long to "get things
> fixed."
>
> John

In the early 60's, in the motorfreight industry an 'old timer' that I had great respect
for said, "the best way to get rid of a dumb or bad rule, was to follow it to the letter."
After following Ray's advice as instructed, I learned it worked just as he said it would!

Larry Dodgion
Wilsonville, OR

wa4umr Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Where I worked (phone company)I found that when
> management came up with some stupid rule, the best
> thing to do was to do exactly what they wanted.
> It didn't usually take long to "get things
> fixed."
>
In 1971, soon after arriving at the SP's simulator as an instructor I had a conversation, one of many on a
daily basis, with my immediate boss Roy Clements Jr.. Roy later moved on to System RFE and then I lost track of him.
The subject of this little talk was my frustration about how some operating rule was being interpreted
by the general office folks in San Francisco.

Roy offered me the following insight; If there is a rule or practice that is poorly written or applied,
the best way to get it changed is to comply with it to the fullest, give it 100 percent compliance. In that
manner, if it is truly poorly written the end result will be that the 'wheels' will slow down or possibly even stop
and this is one action that managers, be they railroaders or peanut butter makers understand and hopefully make
the appropriate changes to 'right-the-ship'.

When I returned to the ranks a couple of years later I tried to make that advice my mantra. I'm not sure if either my
fellow rails or supervisors looked at it this the same way but I did have a few instances where local trainmasters took
me aside and asked me for my opinion on a particular rule or practice. At least they knew I wasn't trying to throw
a wrench into their operation; simply trying to get them to see how poorly written rules were hurting their productivity.
I fear todays version of managers are way too busy to look at these basic facts of life.

Charlie

cewherry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> wa4umr Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Where I worked (phone company)I found that when
> > management came up with some stupid rule, the
> best
> > thing to do was to do exactly what they wanted.
>
> > It didn't usually take long to "get things
> > fixed."
> >
> In 1971, soon after arriving at the SP's
> simulator as an instructor I had a conversation,
> one of many on a
> daily basis, with my immediate boss Roy Clements
> Jr.. Roy later moved on to System RFE and then I
> lost track of him.
> The subject of this little talk was my frustration
> about how some operating rule was being
> interpreted
> by the general office folks in San Francisco.
>
> Roy offered me the following insight; If there is
> a rule or practice that is poorly written or
> applied,
> the best way to get it changed is to comply with
> it to the fullest, give it 100 percent compliance.
> In that
> manner, if it is truly poorly written the end
> result will be that the 'wheels' will slow down or
> possibly even stop
> and this is one action that managers, be they
> railroaders or peanut butter makers understand and
> hopefully make
> the appropriate changes to 'right-the-ship'.
>
> When I returned to the ranks a couple of years
> later I tried to make that advice my mantra. I'm
> not sure if either my
> fellow rails or supervisors looked at it this the
> same way but I did have a few instances where
> local trainmasters took
> me aside and asked me for my opinion on a
> particular rule or practice. At least they knew I
> wasn't trying to throw
> a wrench into their operation; simply trying to
> get them to see how poorly written rules were
> hurting their productivity.
> I fear todays version of managers are way too busy
> to look at these basic facts of life.
>
> Charlie

Yes they are too busy trying to CYA and manipulate the numbers so their asses won't be chewed out ! or their bosses dinged !

Having a speakerphone was the symbol of great power at 65 Market (or One Market Plaza). When individuals running War Room meetings had some poor hapless trainmaster on the other end of the line they usually put on quite a performance for the attendees. It was difficult to keep a straight face at times because this became so absurd, but expected.

Exespee Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Having a speakerphone was the symbol of great
> power at 65 Market (or One Market Plaza). When
> individuals running War Room meetings had some
> poor hapless trainmaster on the other end of the
> line they usually put on quite a performance for
> the attendees. It was difficult to keep a
> straight face at times because this became so
> absurd, but expected.


I was present a few times when Bill Jones ( Supt SP Western Div 1977ish) was chewing out Charlie Peacock ( ATS San Jose )on his infamous speaker phone.. it was downright embarrassing for me... to watch Bill go into a rage.. eyes bulging, sweat on his brow, his voice was louder and louder with each sentence, talk about being uncomfortable !

John "Disappointed" Ramsey as Joe Willis used to say.

wa4umr Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Where I worked (phone company)I found that when
> management came up with some stupid rule, the best
> thing to do was to do exactly what they
wanted.
> It didn't usually take long to "get things
> fixed."
>
> John

and it usually made ya more money than you normally would've made ...

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