Railroaders' Nostalgia > SP/UP Merger Discussion - A Thanks.

I would like to thank everyone who contributed to the discussion on SP/UP Merger.

I didn’t expect to open the floodgates, but having done so I learned a lot and now have a much better understanding of what contributed to so much discontent in the ranks of the Espee employees.

Also, having participated in two mergers, one in the aerospace industry and the other in the computer software industry, I fully agree with Chooch’s comments on page two. The SP/UP merger just proved to be a bit more rough most.

Again, thanks everyone.

Cheers,
Jack



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/15/14 11:09 by africansteam.

Certainly an interesting thread. I went through 2 mergers (railroad) and only the names, locations and companies are different. Second verse, same as the first.

I had a friend that worked in a sawmill, his quote was that he worked for five different companies and never left the property, five takeovers and really nothing changed. Doug
displacedneb Wrote:
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> Certainly an interesting thread. I went through 2
> mergers (railroad) and only the names, locations
> and companies are different. Second verse, same as
> the first.

Many well informed people on Trainorders. It's a wonderful community. A little bit of everything for everyone. Heck, some people in here knew what was going on with the railroad I worked for before most of us employees did. Good bunch of people here for the most part.

The discussion probably went "out of bounds" going all the way back to the UP/WP/MP merger, yet the seeds of the SP/UP merger fiasco were sown back then.

I think "railstiesballast" made a great point by suggesting UP upper management (Kenefick in particular) did a rather poor job of grooming the right individuals to move up the corporate ladder and that void was filled by MP officers at merger time.

MP's management style MIGHT have been what was needed during the 1980's but by the 1990's that style had become passe and nobody, especially "Tricky Dick" Davidson, recognized this. He was stuck in the "business as usual" routine. I point most of my fingers at Davidson because he took his eye off the ball, thinking that Shoener (who Davidson trusted way too much) and the other cronies could handle operations. That was a critical error in judgment. It had to have been very awkward for him to have to fire Shoener.

UP lost so much business to BNSF because of the SP/UP merger disaster. UP lost two major steamship company accounts...NYK and OOCL. Both had been major supporters of SP. It took YEARS for UP to get any of the NYK business back and BNSF still has almost 100% of the OOCL business. It was reported, once, that APL had one foot out the door too.

Let's also not forget that UP + C&NW did not go smoothly either. That should have been a warning sign...



Allen



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 10/15/14 20:09 by bradleymckay.

You are so right Allen... Don't forget the MOP was in bankruptcy since WW2.. and the MOP people did there best to run the UP into the ground.. luckily mos if not all of the MOP people have either retired, got a buyout or returned to seniority.

SanJoaquinEngr Wrote:
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> You are so right Allen... Don't forget the MOP
> was in bankruptcy since WW2.. and the MOP people
> did there best to run the UP into the ground..
> luckily mos if not all of the MOP people have
> either retired, got a buyout or returned to
> seniority.


Jim, I feel bad for you, Larry, Virlon, and so many others that had to put up with all the BS after the merger in 1996. Much of it was very unnecessary and counter-productive.

If you think back to the years prior to 1983 there was always animosity between the SP/SSW and the MP. I have to wonder if some of those old grudges, in one form or another, spilled over into the UP/SP merger.


Allen

At the UP in Los Angeles we had a fellow show up from Omaha who was a DPU instructor . He had hired out with one of the smaller railroads that kept merging with other railroads until they all were merged into the Mo Pac. He told me, " I have been through so many mergers I have forgot which one I was supposed to hate". He was on hell of a character.

Nothing is new under the sun, nothing ever seems to change. From what I gather from friends, CSX, nowadays, is a combination of the old MoPac and the UP....if not even worse. Their employees blame it on NS people coming in. I think, no matter who it is, it’s just a combination of corporate arrogance and especially their lawyers. There’s a great book written by a lawyer; “The Terrible Truth About Lawyers.” He goes into detail about the pride, arrogance and in general, the way they think. They seem to be writing all the operating rules now. I was told by a UP Rules Officer, everything now goes through the Law Department.

While not railroad my Grandfather worked in a meat packing house in Indianapolis. He was there during 3 or 4 merger buy outs. They had a company based retirement vs a non company based. So every time he lost his retirement. Good thing that's not happend on the railroads yet that I know of

Posted from Android

NSDTK Wrote:
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> While not railroad my Grandfather worked in a meat
> packing house in Indianapolis. He was there during
> 3 or 4 merger buy outs. They had a company based
> retirement vs a non company based. So every time
> he lost his retirement. Good thing that's not
> happend on the railroads yet that I know of
>
> Posted from Android


It would be pretty hard as most RR's come under the RR retirement act. If an employee went from one RR to another over the life of his career he would have still paid into the RRB, as would still draw his retirement with time and age factors.

V

SLOCONDR

bradleymckay Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SanJoaquinEngr Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > You are so right Allen... Don't forget the
> MOP
> > was in bankruptcy since WW2.. and the MOP
> people
> > did there best to run the UP into the ground..
> > luckily mos if not all of the MOP people have
> > either retired, got a buyout or returned to
> > seniority.
>
>
> Jim, I feel bad for you, Larry, Virlon, and so
> many others that had to put up with all the BS
> after the merger in 1996. Much of it was very
> unnecessary and counter-productive.
>
> If you think back to the years prior to 1983 there
> was always animosity between the SP/SSW and the
> MP. I have to wonder if some of those old
> grudges, in one form or another, spilled over into
> the UP/SP merger.
>
>
> Allen

Gosh, not only that, but can you imagine that the SP-SSW guys hated each others' guts to the core and deep and well after the UP/SP Merger?!? Yes indeed, and it shocked me. As the "SSW guys, whether road or yard," were always "getting screwed." (Such was the perception, and after several detailed stories--well--I guess I had to reckon that this was indeed the case?!?). I think that the SP/SSW "System Seniority" aggravated this. But then once this was eliminated after the UP/SP Merger, LOOK OUT!!! Then that opened another Can of WORMS (and not one that I fully understood...having been from the UP/MP side of this big happy family). :-P