Railroaders' Nostalgia > True or False??

The story goes like this... A freight train reported to the DS about a rough track joint they just passed over. A few minutes later the caboose passed the same location and the rear end crew reported the same thing. A work train in the area was dispatched to the site and found a three foot section of rail with the head completely missing. An entire freight train passed over three feet of nothing but 1/2 inch web without derailing.

What say you rails out there, True or False?

Straight track and the other rail was intact, it could happen.
Better have the Mythbusters check this one out!

I've known it to happen at low speed. Theoretically it could happen at higher speed.

We had the same thing happen about 6 miles west of King City, Ca. back in 1983.


V

SLOCONDR

It well could happen - have had trains pass over several broken rails over the years with chunks of the ball missing. However, it's unlikely a work train would be sent to check out the problem. You'd best get the track supervisor headed that way! (And of course protect the location with a 10 mph slow order until inspected and ok'd).

false

CajonRat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The story goes like this... A freight train
> reported to the DS about a rough track joint they
> just passed over. A few minutes later the caboose
> passed the same location and the rear end crew
> reported the same thing. A work train in the area
> was dispatched to the site and found a three foot
> section of rail with the head completely missing.
> An entire freight train passed over three feet of
> nothing but 1/2 inch web without derailing.
>
> What say you rails out there, True or False?

True !!! back in the early 90's i found a 8" head web seperation similar to the one descibed above ... i was on scene and was met by the RFE ... we agreed on what to do and i called in the defect to the disp and put a 5 mph walking speed restriction and that a MW inspector on scene was to watch the move ... a 1/2hr later a sb Amtrak train was approaching the restriction ... as he got closer the RFE and myself noticed the train approaching at track speed 80mph and wasn't slowing down ... the train never slowed and blew the restriction much to our horror we stepped way back watching every wheel roll over the gap in utter disbelief PRAAAAAYING we weren't go to witness a catostrophic event ... by the grace of GOD we hadn't ... if not for the speed of the train at 80mph and had the train been moving any slower we would've witnessed a probable disaster ... the RFE called the train and asked the engineer by name if he had form d such and such ... engineer replied "roger" ... RFE tells the engineer when he gets to AC to hang around till he got there ... the RFE turns to me and says this incident didn't happen and don't say a word ... i said ok but on one condition he says "what's that" ... i said "this goes both ways ... if one of our guys gets himself in a pickle that can be squashed you have to turn head the other way and let it go" ... he just looked at me and walked away but we had an eye contact agreement ...

i just reread the original post and for some reason not surprising to me i completely missed the point of 3 ft head web seperation ... i'm going to change my vote to highly unlikely but limitly possible depending on certain factors ... we're talking 36" of no rail head which is a little less than the distance between the rail wheels of.a north american freight truck ... so for that to possibly occur the train would have to be moving extremely slow ... my estimate would have to say the speed of the train in the scenario would have to have been less than 10 more than likely between 5 and 10mph and the freight cars would have to have been empty and not loads ...

Posted from Android



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 12/28/14 23:21 by Out_Of_Service.

Absolutely possible. Look up the YouTube postings of the WWII US Army tests where they attempted to derail trains. You won't believe the footage. Shot down south somewhere at an Army base. It's not as easy as you might think under the right circumstances.

True.

Went over one like that south of Century, Fl at track speed which was 49. Dark terrirory and saw it when I went over it. By then nothing you could do but hope the air does not dump!! Last train would have also went over it. This happened after the "cabs" were cut off so no one on rear to report it.
Previous post about US Army test I believe was at Fort Polk, LA that had an extensive railroad for training.

Steve Panzik
Chiloquin, OR



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/29/14 08:29 by ln844south.

There is an interesting video on YOU know what TUBE. Search for "experiment to derail trains." There should be a picture near the top with a section of rail and a gap on both sides. You are going to be surprised at the results. It's a WWII training film from the Office of Strategic Services, OSS. They are using lighter European train on 85 pound rail.

John

wa4umr Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There is an interesting video on YOU know what
> TUBE. Search for "experiment to derail trains."
> There should be a picture near the top with a
> section of rail and a gap on both sides. You are
> going to be surprised at the results. It's a WWII
> training film from the Office of Strategic
> Services, OSS. They are using lighter European
> train on 85 pound rail.
>
> John

I was going to post about this as well but you all beat me to it. I was simply amazed at what that train went over without derailing.

Posted from iPhone

#3 went over 12" of missing rail in Holcomb KS few years ago. I reported it. It was near the frog so I suspect they didn't feel it. Inspector said it came apart under them as they had good signals. Wheels beat a new ramp up as it hit it. 79mph.
And a friend went over a 12" gap near Norfolk on the C &S at 49mph. Dark territory. Stayed upright.

Posted from Android

Absolutely, it can happen.

Been there, done that.

In this case the rail developed a horizontal fracture and about 10' feet (longer than the engines wheelbase) of the head slid off to the outside, bending to a S shape at both ends and pressing downward and out, without breaking out. 'Twas in the yard, and an inbound transfer had just come in, so it fractured somewhere under that train.

I was riding the leading footboard of s switch engine (yeah, I know) and I gave a lantern signal to Ernie P. that I wanted to take the engine up the lead to the crossovers to westbound yard. Mistake. Ernie knew where he was supposed to be going, so he ran her up to about 10 mph and quit looking for signals, or track condition. He never saw it. I caught a glint of reflection off the offset railhead and started throwing stop signals to Ernie, but he wasn't even lookin'. If I'd jumped I would have smashed right into the switch shanty or light pole next to it, and didn't have time to swing around into the stairwell behind the faceplate. I thought of bending over and kissing my legs and feet goodbye. but no time for that, either. I held on tight and rode it out.

Ernie stopped a few hundred feet further down the lead at the crossover switch - I went in the cab and thoroughly cuss him out. He never even knew he'd done it! Ernie was not the most attentive engineer.

I went in and told the yardmaster. He had another transfer coming down the hill, which he stopped, described the problem, and brought in over the bad spot before shutting down the yard.

-John



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/29/14 12:52 by LarryDoyle.

You bet it can happen. Been there.

Nudge

Yep, true, anything is possible on the railroad. Anyone out there remember an article in Trains Mag MANY years ago about "rerailing on the run"? Some pretty amazing accounts of trains derailing at speed then rerailing later without the crew even knowing. Even going into emergency in the night with the rear brakie walking up fiding the train together but air hoses parted and later finding out a car had derailed rolled down an embankment while the train rolled back to to a joint with a farmed discovering a car on his property the next morning. Stranger things have occured out there.
JB

As the old heads of my era used to say, "No problem. If you go fast enough, all you'll hit are the high spots."

I slowed down at Ellinor, KS to look at a rough spot repored by a train we had just met. A 24" section of rail broke out, and was laying on it's side. The entire train ran over the Web of that short piece and never even slowed down.

Posted from Android

It did indeed happen, the story was from John Cockrell's book "45 Years of true railroad stories" page 213. When I read it, I thought "no way", but after reading these posts "YEAH WAY". Now I'm off to see if Amtrak can refund my tickets.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/30/14 06:17 by CajonRat.

3rdswitch's above comment about "rerailing on the run" reminded me that while working the Emporia to Abilene turn in the early '70s a track inspector that had been patrolling behind us met us in Abilene asking about a car on the ground. We didn't know anything about it. A car in our train had been marking the ties for about 4 miles between Navarre and Enterprise, hit a crossing plank and rerailed itself as there were not any more marks on the ties. Fortunately that crossing was just ahead of a facing point switch and all of our cars were empties.

Mark