Railroaders' Nostalgia > Engineer Training - Steam to Diesel

I was watching a YouTube video from 1954 of mixed diesel-steam operations on the B&O in my home area near Confluence, PA, when it occurred to me that I'd never read anything about how steam locomotive engineers were trained for the transition to diesel. Did the diesel manufacturers train a starter group of engineers who then became in-house trainers for other engineers? Was it a difficult transition? How long did it take to learn to run a diesel? What were the qualifying criteria? Any and all feedback will be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance for any response.

qed479
In Michigan

I was told that on the SP, they had "Diesel Instructors". (I think they were traveling RFEs) I am sure someone on this list could add a lot to it.

My understanding is that they had to go to a class, usually in a "Rules" car, spotted at a terminal. I don't know if they had to take a few student trips but I'm sure the "TE" would give him a check ride or two.

Nudge

My grandfather transitioned from steam to diesel "way back when", the railway was concerned that the old time steam guys might not adjust to diesels. Just the opposite, riding and running a diesel was a piece of cake compared to operating a steam locomotive and the conditions in the cab. Doug

When I wrote the exam in 1955 we had to do both steam and diesel.

Some engineers never fully made the transition. I worked once or twice with an old guy who simply refused to use the dynamic brake, 30 years after steam's departure.

-E.O.

EO - Sounds like Herby H. I remember going through the San Jose Depot freight lead on a U33C with smoke billowing off the engine brake shoes because of his heavy use of the Indpendemt. He didn't understand and hence didn't want anything to do with Dynamic Brakes. sphogger.

As a small child circa 1960, I would often see enginemen back up to take up slack before moving their train forward.

sphogger Wrote:
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> EO - Sounds like Herby H. I remember going
> through the San Jose Depot freight lead on a U33C
> with smoke billowing off the engine brake shoes
> because of his heavy use of the Indpendemt. He
> didn't understand and hence didn't want anything
> to do with Dynamic Brakes. sphogger.


I can see Herby doing this, but actually this fellow was one of your "South End" predecessors. Darn if I can remember his name. His most remarkable stunt came around Harrington on the W Val while slowing down for a 10 mph slow order with about 140 empties. First, he shut off and coasted for a couple of miles, then, when that didn't work well enough, he suddenly hit the straight air (NO feathering!) for I know not how much, but the run-in was considerable. When we got to Dunsmuir, wanting to make it clear that I wasn't running, I cornered the old head conductor and told him how glad I was that he wasn't dead of a head injury. His response was something like, "Hell, he's been doing this to me for forty years. I was ready."

-E.O.

1956-1959 I lived in Calgary, AB. My dad had been transferred there by Richfield Oil Co. and I finished High School there. We had a 2 hour lunch period and I would spend my lunch hour riding steam locomotives switching the west end of downtown Calgary. My favorite job switched the Robin Hood Flour Mill at 9th Ave. and 4th St. SW. The regular locomotive was N-2A, 2-8-0 No. 3647. One day in 1958 I went to ride the engine as usual and discovered it had been replaced by an FM Trainmaster. That was it, the Engineer, L.C. Bowman, told me the 3647 was done.

The crew loved the diesel. It was set up with long hood forward, and was nice and clean and easy to run. It had the same brake system they were used to and plenty of power. There was no training instructor on the engine. They had been shown what to do at the roundhouse and sent on their way.

D-10, 4-6-0 No. 911 was still on the Tie Treatment job that worked the plant west of 14th St. That engine was one of the last steamers to work in Calgary.

The photo is looking northeast. The Gulf Tower is located at the site of the flour mill.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/27/15 08:48 by px320.

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hogheaded Wrote:
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> Some engineers never fully made the transition. I
> worked once or twice with an old guy who simply
> refused to use the dynamic brake, 30 years after
> steam's departure.

When I started on B&OCT, there was an East Chicago engineer who couldn't change ends. He'd take a train to Barr, and before leaving for East Chicago would look for an engineer to change ends for him.

TAW

TAW Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> hogheaded Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Some engineers never fully made the transition.
> I
> > worked once or twice with an old guy who simply
> > refused to use the dynamic brake, 30 years
> after
> > steam's departure.
>
> When I started on B&OCT, there was an East Chicago
> engineer who couldn't change ends. He'd take a
> train to Barr, and before leaving for East Chicago
> would look for an engineer to change ends for
> him.

That pretty much takes the cake!

-E.O.

qed479 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
Did the diesel manufacturers train a
> starter group of engineers who then became
> in-house trainers for other engineers?
>
> Thanks in advance for any response.
>
> qed479
> In Michigan


EMD had a VERY large group of "Field Instructors" working out of the Service Department in LaGrange, Ill. When I started as a Field Instructor June 1, 1962, the group was about 20 to 25 men, and some of the "old timers" told me that the Field Instructor group numbered over 50 men in the 1940s thru 1950s.

HotWater Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> qed479 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> Did the diesel manufacturers train a
> > starter group of engineers who then became
> > in-house trainers for other engineers?
> >
> > Thanks in advance for any response.
> >
> > qed479
> > In Michigan
>
>
> EMD had a VERY large group of "Field Instructors"
> working out of the Service Department in LaGrange,
> Ill. When I started as a Field Instructor June 1,
> 1962, the group was about 20 to 25 men, and some
> of the "old timers" told me that the Field
> Instructor group numbered over 50 men in the 1940s
> thru 1950s.

Exactly, I remember one old engineer who hated the
changeover. He was a very good engineer and ran the
"Q's" racehorse Hudsons and Northerns to their full
capacity. I laughed at his quote when he talked about
the change-over to diesels. He said, " I'm an
engineer, not a MOTORMAN (referring to trolley operators.)"
In reality, the most difficult for steam guys, like my
grandfather, was the learning of "making transition",
changing the phasing of the traction motors (now
done automatically). With good instruction and some
time, most adapted, some did not. Like the braking
thing, where some continue to use "straight air", a
local 'Straight Air Charlie', never got the change.
I can identify with the billowing smoke in a previous
post!

Near as I can tell, the Milwaukee figured that once you qualified as an engineer, you'd know how to handle anything they'd throw at you.

I don't remember my Dad talking about it much. He started in 1916 and either fired or ran every class of steam engine on the Frisco. He caught the EMD FT demo out of Newburg, MO when it was making the rounds.
He didn't like diesels and always loved running steam. I was told by quite a few of the guys who worked with him he was a master at running them.
He was a consummate storyteller and I think I learned a ton from just listening to them.
I miss the hell out of him, even though he's been gone over 50 years. I wish he could have been around when we had 1522 running.

HotWater Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> qed479 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> Did the diesel manufacturers train a
> > starter group of engineers who then became
> > in-house trainers for other engineers?
> >
> > Thanks in advance for any response.
> >
> > qed479
> > In Michigan
>
>
> EMD had a VERY large group of "Field Instructors"
> working out of the Service Department in LaGrange,
> Ill. When I started as a Field Instructor June 1,
> 1962, the group was about 20 to 25 men, and some
> of the "old timers" told me that the Field
> Instructor group numbered over 50 men in the 1940s
> thru 1950s.

I was talking once with an old EMD hand who had been one of those field instructors. He told of riding with a crew on their first run on a diesel. As they approached a tunnel, the crew got increasingly panicky; where was the breathing tube? By the time they exited the tunnel, they were converted.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/11/15 05:30 by ddkid.

My dad was a telegrapher for the Milwaukee Road before WWII. He enlisted in the Army and wound up in the Signal Corps. His first duty station was in Honolulu, HI, arriving only 2 weeks after the sneak attack on Pearl Harbor. When he was discharged, he went back to Milwaukee, WI and the railroad. He became a radio maintainer and traveled all over the Milwaukee system installing and maintaining communications equipment. 2 way radio communications were in their infancy at this point on the railroads.

Anyway, he did do a lot of work related traveling. When he could not get a ride on a passenger train, he frequently rode the cab of whatever locomotive was on the head end. He also liked to tell stories about what went on during his trips away from home. I was always his best audience. The theme of this post reminded me of the story he told where he was somewhere out west, riding in the cab of a new diesel. I can't remember where this happened, but they arrived at a crew change point whereby the head end crew immediately exited the cab and took off. My dad was waiting outside the idling locomotives when the new crew walked up. It soon became apparent that none of these guys had a clue as to how to operate a diesel. My father had plenty of experience watching other crews operate the new locomotives during his previous cab excursions. With his help, the crew soon had the train heading out of town. From what I can remember, the biggest part of getting the locomotives to do their job was to figure out how and when to manually make the transitions.

My father was no engineer, but he did have the opportunity to ride in a number of Milwaukee's new diesels in addition to many steam locomotives. His home base was in the massive Milwaukee Road shop complex, in the Menominee Valley. I am guessing that the new diesels were initially more common in the Chicago/Milwaukee area and slowly infiltrated the lines west.