Railroaders' Nostalgia > Another Quick lesson

The former SP LA Divisioners will recognize this, but its still worth spreading around, especially at the instigator's expense!
We had a daily Westbound auto parts train that had the front half to set out at City of Industry for the Tweedy GM plant, to be picked up by the Firestone Local, and the rear half went on thru LA to the other GM plant at Van Nuys.
Many of these cars had to be spotted that evening for next day unloading, as GM didn't maintain much inventory, and a missing car could result in a plant shutdown, which we would hear about no end.
This day the APW (auto parts west) had about 75 cars with a rear-end only car due to a broken hydraulic underframe for Tweedy next ahead of the caboose, and of course this was a shutdown car!  Normally he would set out 30 or so cars against the Firestone's caboose which was waiting in a clear track, then go back to his train and leave with the rest.  The Firestone engines would get on their cars while the road power was pumping up the air in the siding, and go around the outside leg of the wye to get on the UP and head for Los Nietos.

This day, with the hot Tweedy rear-ender car next to the caboose, Gary the ATM at C of I gets the bright idea to cut off the road crew's caboose and KICK the rear ender against the Firestone's caboose, then shove the thru cars back against the road caboose, then set out the head cars.  The train pulls down and cuts off their caboose, then pulls ahead until the ATM tells them to stop. Then he has the rear brakeman pull the pin and tells the engineer to "KICK 'EM!" (With 70 cars and 3 SD45s.)  The engineer says WHAT?  The ATM says "This is Trainmaster Bonner and I am telling you to "KICK 'EM!!"  With that much power the train started back quickly and the brakeman couldn't run fast enough alongside holding the pin up and had to let go, and unfortunately the pin didn't stay up.  Next is "that'll do on the Autos," and the slack runs out quickly on 70 cars stopped by 3 SD45s.

NO knuckles, but it pulled all fifty feet of the bad order hydraulic center sill out, and the couplerless car ran into the Firestone's caboose, bending the steps and the end ladder etc.  The amazing thing is that none of the rear through cars derailed running over the center sill laying between the rails until the kick stopped!

Everyone can guess what his knickname was after that.

ExSPCondr Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The former SP LA Divisioners will recognize this,
> but its still worth spreading around, especially
> at the instigator's expense!
> We had a daily Westbound auto parts train that had
> the front half to set out at City of Industry for
> the Tweedy GM plant, to be picked up by the
> Firestone Local, and the rear half went on thru LA
> to the other GM plant at Van Nuys.
> Many of these cars had to be spotted that evening
> for next day unloading, as GM didn't maintain much
> inventory, and a missing car could result in a
> plant shutdown, which we would hear about no end.
> This day the APW (auto parts west) had about 75
> cars with a rear-end only car due to a broken
> hydraulic underframe for Tweedy next ahead of the
> caboose, and of course this was a shutdown car! 
> Normally he would set out 30 or so cars against
> the Firestone's caboose which was waiting in a
> clear track, then go back to his train and leave
> with the rest.  The Firestone engines would get
> on their cars while the road power was pumping up
> the air in the siding, and go around the outside
> leg of the wye to get on the UP and head for Los
> Nietos.
>
> This day, with the hot Tweedy rear-ender car next
> to the caboose, Gary the ATM at C of I gets the
> bright idea to cut off the road crew's caboose and
> KICK the rear ender against the Firestone's
> caboose, then shove the thru cars back against the
> road caboose, then set out the head cars.  The
> train pulls down and cuts off their caboose, then
> pulls ahead until the ATM tells them to stop. Then
> he has the rear brakeman pull the pin and tells
> the engineer to "KICK 'EM!" (With 70 cars and 3
> SD45s.)  The engineer says WHAT?  The ATM says
> "This is Trainmaster Bonner and I am telling you
> to "KICK 'EM!!"  With that much power the train
> started back quickly and the brakeman
> couldn't run fast enough alongside holding the
> pin up and had to let go, and unfortunately the
> pin didn't stay up.  Next is "that'll do on the
> Autos," and the slack runs out quickly on 70 cars
> stopped by 3 SD45s.
>
> NO knuckles, but it pulled all fifty feet of the
> bad order hydraulic center sill out, and the
> couplerless car ran into the Firestone's caboose,
> bending the steps and the end ladder etc.  The
> amazing thing is that none of the rear through
> cars derailed running over the center sill laying
> between the rails until the kick stopped!
>
> Everyone can guess what his knickname was after
> that.


George, I was working CoI that day when Engineer Howard Krodak(SP?) came in with that train. As soon as Bonner said "kick 'em" there was dead silence and then Howard, in a voice of disbelief, said, as you say "WHAT"? and then he questioned the move and Bonner then said, istead of "this is TM Bonner", "This is the voice of authority, and I said kick 'em!" So Howard kiscked 'em.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/09/15 18:08 by SLOCONDR.

the WORSE and the most DANGEROUS person (Boss) to work with on the railroad is one who doesn't know he doesn't have a clue but THINKS he's more knowledgable than the his subordinates that psrforn the everyday functions and that his way is the only way without getting input from the people who know and do the job on a daily basis ...

Posted from Android

Out_Of_Service Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> the WORSE and the most DANGEROUS person (Boss) to
> work with on the railroad is one who doesn't know
> he doesn't have a clue but THINKS he's more
> knowledgable than the his subordinates that
> psrforn the everyday functions and that his way is
> the only way without getting input from the people
> who know and do the job on a daily basis ...
>
> Posted from Android

Boy, did you hit the nail on the head!! That is the total truth, and in the above case George sited, is right on the money.

Wow, this was awesome!

Posted from Android

DG .
Unknown, US

Three questions:

Question 1: Where did SP do the blocking to separate the Van Nuys and Tweedy cars? In Pine Bluff? To do this, was the APW from E. St. Louis flat-switched or humped? (I can't imagine they would blow all the time required to hump the train.)

Question 2: On the UP in my day, if a train was asked to make a double setout like that, then the crew was entitled to a local rate. Was that true on the SP in the LA Basin?

Question 3: It seems odd to me that the Firestone Local (connection for the GM auto parts) went on duty in City of Industry. Why didn't it go on duty in Taylor?

Thanks in advance,

Rob L.

rob_l Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Question 3: It seems odd to me that the Firestone
> Local (connection for the GM auto parts) went on
> duty in City of Industry. Why didn't it go on duty
> in Taylor?
>
> The "Firestone Local" of George's post went on duty at
"Tweedy Yard" the RR name of the GM plant.  Actually the on duty
point was a prefab building at 92th St. and Alameda St.,  about  one third mile
compass north of the GM plant. The yard limit sign marking the southern limit
of the Los Angeles terminal was very close to the building and here my gray matter
is failing me as to the significance of this fact. I do remember that  auto parts trains
destined Tweedy  entered yard limits at Firestone Park on the east leg of the wye and then immediately
exited said yard limits on the south leg at the 92nd and Alameda St. There was still considerable
commercial traffic, particularly around Patata that the day Firestone switcher tended to so
the need to go on duty around there dictated this.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/09/15 22:22 by cewherry.

Then let me rephrase the question:

Question 3: Why did the APW interchange with the Firestone Local at COI instead of at Taylor?

Thanks in advance,

Rob L.

cewherry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> rob_l Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > Question 3: It seems odd to me that the
> Firestone
> > Local (connection for the GM auto parts) went
> on
> > duty in City of Industry. Why didn't it go on
> duty
> > in Taylor?
> >
> > The "Firestone Local" of George's post went on
> duty at
> "Tweedy Yard" the RR name of the GM
> plant.  Actually the on duty
> point was a prefab building at 92th St. and
> Alameda St.,  about  one third mile
> compass north of the GM plant. The yard limit sign
> marking the southern limit
> of the Los Angeles terminal was very close to the
> building and here my gray matter
> is failing me as to the significance of this fact.
> I do remember that trains auto parts trains
> destined Tweedy  entered yard limits at Firestone
> Park on the east leg of the wye and then
> immediately
> exited said yard limits on the south leg at the
> 92nd and Alameda St. There was still considerable
> commercial traffic, particularly around Patata
> that the day Firestone switcher tended to so
> the need to go on duty around there dictated this.

Rob, I would assume PB did the reblocking. IIRC, the APW cars were part of the BSM until PB.

WAF Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Rob, I would assume PB did the reblocking. IIRC,
> the APW cars were part of the BSM until PB.

thankX for answering my question without me having to ask for it ... ever since i read an article back in the early 70s in Trains mag about the fastest scheduled freight trains ... the BSM was one of them ... it became my favorite SP train ... would i be correct in saying it originated out of Pine Bluff ???

Posted from Android



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/10/15 08:06 by Out_Of_Service.

The "Firestone Hauler" went on duty at 92nd Street as aptly summarized by Mr. Wherry.  It hauled the empty auto parts from the day shift and/or the preceeding afternoon/night pulls at GM South Gate to City of Industry for pick-up by the APE (Auto Parts East), usually a late morning process at City of Industry.  The reason(s) for doing the set outs and pick-ups at COI vs. Los Angeles Taylor Yard was a matter of efficiency.  It was actually a quicker trip from COI to Tweedy via the Puente and Santa Ana Branches vs. coming down from Los Angeles Taylor Yard via the San Pedro Branch (Taylor Yard congestion, J-Yard congestion, etc.).  After setting out the GM South Gate cars at COI, the remaining cars on the APW for Gemco (GM Van Nuys) would proceed from COI right up the westbound main at Taylor Yard, make a quick crew change, and become what was known as an "extra Chats".  It would then highball up to Gemco and hopefully get there in time to meet GM Van Nuys plant requirements.  Having worked both locations as Assistant Trainmaster and/or Assistant Terminal Superintendent, I lost many hours of sanity and used many bottles of Maalox hoping it would all work correctly every night!  I have to hand it to most of the road crews involved in this process, however, because I was always impressed how well it worked in most cases thanks to their dedication and understanding of the process.

Pete 

APW, yes, because it gathered cars off of the interchange trains from Memphis and it all got humped into the APW. The St Louis APW cars rode the sections of the BSM out of ES. Made have had a APW symbol, but truly became the APW at PB. The 2/BSM was in realilty the APW, but SP referred to it as the APW only to GM to keep them happy as they wanted a unit train of their cars

Zephyr Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>Having worked both locations
> as Assistant Trainmaster and/or Assistant Terminal
> Superintendent, I lost many hours of sanity and
> used many bottles of Maalox hoping it would all
> work correctly every night! .
>
> PeteI doubt you lost anything at all. You werer an excellent officer. VSLOCONDR

Out_Of_Service Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WAF Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Rob, I would assume PB did the reblocking.
> IIRC,
> > the APW cars were part of the BSM until PB.

No. The GM "ARRO" train to Southern California originated at IC's Markham Yard on the south side of Chicago and moved intact to hand-off to the SP at East St. Louis and intact to Pine Bluff. I don't know if power and caboose were pooled Markham to Pine Bluff but in any case the auto parts and setups from Markham moved intact through the E. St. Louis gateway. The SP symbolled this as APW (before TOPS) but as WAF notes it was treated wth the same priority as a section of the BSM.

At Pine Bluff additional auto parts originating at downstate Indiana and downstate Ohio plants (in particular, Fisher Body plants) were cut into the APW. These parts arrived on PC (later Conrail) run-through trains to CB via the E. St. Louis gateway. I am not aware of any significant volume of GM auto parts moving through the Memphis gateway but there might have been some.

I would be very surprised if the GM train from Markham (SP's APW) was humped at Pine Bluff. Much more likely it was flat-switched to cut in the auto parts not routed via Markham, similar to the way Memphis merchandise was flat-switched into the BSM at Pine Bluff.

>
> thankX for answering my question without me having
> to ask for it ... ever since i read an article
> back in the early 70s in Trains mag about the
> fastest scheduled freight trains ... the BSM was
> one of them ... it became my favorite SP train ...
> would i be correct in saying it originated out of
> Pine Bluff ???

No, the BSM originated at E. St. Louis. After the Cotton Rock was acquired, the E. St. Louis section of the BSM was re-routed via the Cotton Rock and a Memphis section of the Blue originated in Memphis and followed the traditional BSM route via San Antonio.

Best regards,

Rob L.

Early days, yes the GM parts were solid into and out of ES, BUT LATER, circa 1977, they came moved in separate blocks on different BSMs to PB. Remember by 1977, the schedule of the BSM was lengthen by making an earlier departure out of ES. Still 10:00PM on paper, but the first one rolled by 6:30PM. The hope was they could hit LA at 10:30PM which rarely happened. The problems with the BSM affected the APW too. Its schedule was lengthen. It too rarely got to SoCal on time.

WAF Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Early days, yes the GM parts were solid into and
> out of ES, BUT LATER, circa 1977, they came moved
> in separate blocks on different BSMs to PB.

One train was the run-through with IC from Markham. It would have 100% of the Chicago gateway GM parts and setups. Perhaps by 1977 SP was filling that one a bit at E. St. Louis and calling it a BSM. The other BSM train(s) that were handling GM traffic were handling the parts interchanged at E. St. Louis by Conrail.

> Remember by 1977, the schedule of the BSM was
> lengthen by making an earlier departure out of ES.
> Still 10:00PM on paper, but the first one rolled
> by 6:30PM. The hope was they could hit LA at
> 10:30PM which rarely happened. The problems with
> the BSM affected the APW too. Its schedule was
> lengthen. It too rarely got to SoCal on time.

By 1977, auto parts to LA were down. When did South Gate close?

Best regards,

Rob L.

rob_l Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WAF Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Early days, yes the GM parts were solid into
> and
> > out of ES, BUT LATER, circa 1977, they came
> moved
> > in separate blocks on different BSMs to PB.
>
> One train was the run-through with IC from
> Markham. It would have 100% of the Chicago gateway
> GM parts and setups. Perhaps by 1977 SP was
> filling that one a bit at E. St. Louis and
> calling it a BSM. The other BSM train(s) that were
> handling GM traffic were handling the parts
> interchanged at E. St. Louis by Conrail.
>
> > Remember by 1977, the schedule of the BSM was
> > lengthen by making an earlier departure out of
> ES.
> > Still 10:00PM on paper, but the first one
> rolled
> > by 6:30PM. The hope was they could hit LA at
> > 10:30PM which rarely happened. The problems
> with
> > the BSM affected the APW too. Its schedule was
> > lengthen. It too rarely got to SoCal on time.
>
> By 1977, auto parts to LA were down. When did
> South Gate close?
>
> Best regards,
>
> Rob L.
79 or a bit later?

GM South Gate ended production March 1982...

Thanks

fwiw, iirc, GM called the South Gate plant 'BOP':  Buick - Oldsmobile - Pontiac. (I toured the plant shortly after dinousaurs roamed the Earth).
...Lorenzo