Railroaders' Nostalgia > "Throw off a message.....

It has been a while since I leaned back in the chair and daydreamed of a topic for nostalgia...Do you suppose nostalgia is not what it used to be?

Frequently there are discussions of picking up train orders at stations and towers without stopping.  Less often, there are discussions of "exchanging" mail on passenger trains.
During the 1960's. even before railroad radios, lots of messages were thrown off as a train passed a station.  For instance, Westbound (Northbound really) passnger trains on the SP would register their train with the train order operator at Santa Barbara Yard by using a register ticket, a form about 2 by 5 inches on which the conductor would enter train number, signals, engine number and so forth.  As the passenger train passed the yard office, the conductor would scoop up his orders and clearance form and also throw off the register ticket.  Some of the veteran trainmen would roll the form into a thin cone shape, and then flick it at the operator who was hooping up the orders.  A good conductor could put the form right in the guy's shirt pocket!
   On the Daylight, (train 99), the conductor was required to put off a message at Surf detailing how many passengers were aboard for the Monterey bus connection, for the Oakland bus connection at San Jose, and for the local commute connections between San Jose and San Fran.  Since the train would be moving about 60 thru Surf, it would be easy for the message to get lost in the dust, so the message was wrapped in a baseball sized ball of white paper towels, secured by a plethora  of rubber bands, and thrown from the train in a huge arc curving toward the station person.  When things went right, it would arc gracefully away from the train and be caught in a two handed catch!  Frequently, passengers looking at trhe scenery would be perplexed at what in the hell was that guy playing baseball in the middle of nowhere on a barren hillside?   
   Most passenger trains in the 1960's had Railway Post Office cars, (RPO's).  These cars were staffed by postal employees, not railroad employess, and they sorted letters, newspapers, and other mail while the train was en route.  As the train passed smaller cities where the train did not stop, mail would be "exchanged" on the fly.  For instance, the San Joaquin Daylight, SP train 51,  left LA at about 600am, and exchanged mail without stopping at San Fernando, Saugus, Palmdale, Monolith, Keene, Tipton, and Kingsburg.
As the train approched a "catch" location, the RPO clerk in charge of the swap of mail would call out "Palmdale up!" about three miles from the location.  Each clerk would pull all the mail from the letter cases, quickly tie it with twine, and throw the small bundle toward the designated mail sack.  When all the large envelopes, letters and papers were in the pouch, the foreman would lock the pouch, record the serial number, and the catch clerk would step to the door on the RPO car and look ahead thru the small windshield mounted on the side of the door frame.  Swinging the pouch with one hand and the other hand on the hook, he would throw the pouch out and quickly raise the hook to catch the mail sack hanging on the mail crane.  WHAM!!!  The sound of the pouch being grabbed by the hook was almost as loud as a explosion.  The new pouch would be nestled in the crook of the hook.
   In that same era, I frequently worked as a baggageman for SP.  Those jobs were filled by trainmen, and the position was called Train Baggageman, or TBM.  The TBM would load and unload US mail, baggage, company SP mail, cans of milk and cream, and  small company material shipments.  Once I checked everyting out in the two or three cars I was  working, there wasn't much to do between stations.  It was a bit lonely though, as I could be all alone  for several hours save a  quick conversations with station forces at stops.  It didn't take long to get acquainted with the RPO clerks.  I would frequently go back to the RPO car to talk with those guys if the foreman of the car wasn't a stickler for the rules - actually, outsiders were never allowed in the RPO cars, but most guys didn't mind the TBM having a cup of coffee.  They did brew a mean cup of coffee in the little steam heater on those cars!  I also learned how to "case" letters and parcels - knowing where to place a letter for Guerneyville or Quincy.
   Well, one day sometime in the mid-60's, I was working baggage on train 51.  I mooched a cup of coffee in the RPO ( the RPO was entrained between the baggage cars I worked in and rest of the train) so I couldn't go back to the diner or automat anyway).  I told the foreman of the RPO I really would like to take a picture of the actual "catch" of the mail at Palmdale.  He too was intrigued by the idea, so we went back to the next car and opened the baggage car door,  I placed my old reliable Contaflex 35MM SLR on the door frame looking ahead, and leaned out to  look thru the sight.  The foreman grabbed my belt to keep me from falling out the open door!  As we approached the mail crane (that's what they called those things) I squinted to look thru the lens to catch the precise moment the catch arm snatched the pouch from the arms of the crane.  I did get a good action shot.  I also felt a whoosh as the arm of the mail crane passed within about 6 inches of my forehead.  I hadn't really given any thought as to how close that was to the side of the cars at 60 mph but made me a bit week in the knees as I thought of it.

Norman Orfall
Helendale, CA
TIOGA PASS, a private railcar



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 06/29/15 18:03 by aronco.

Where is the photo from the event?

The father of one of our friends  was an RPO.  Wayne McMasters. Ever meet him?
C

Carol Voss
Bakersfield, CA

We would roll up our train consist report into a cone and then pull the lead strip from a torpedo to wrap the end for weight to drop off to the Operator at our first tower after leaving the Initial Terminal.

Nice to see you back with more stories.

You are right, there are a lot of things we took for granted back then and didn't bother to write down. Every once and awhile I will remember something and try to make a note of it. Its like our old phone numbers when we were growing up.  How many people remember them.  At the ranch in Goleta the number was 82411. You had to go thru the operator to make a LD call. You couldn't dial into or out of most towns. I think it was in 61-62 that they finally added the full 7 digits around Santa Barb. It became WOodland 8-2411 and LD service. Watsonville was PArkway 2-, SLO was LIberty 5-, In  Marin County, HOward, EDgewater, GLenwood 4-2678 Then the next jump was get rid of names. Like the SPs main number was DOuglas 2-1212. It went to 362-1212 . Finally the area codes and was easy to see what area someones phone number was. Santa Rosa was 707, the west bay was 415, SLO 805 & LA was 213. That and dial phones are long gone and soon the memories them.  But I still have memories of going to the phone say at Bradley. listening to the dispatcher. Then you put the knife switch over to the "Farmer Line". You would push the button and say, "Busy ??" If nobody said anything , you would hold the hook down and crank the phone one long ring.. Pretty soon the operator in SF would answer and you would give her the number you wanted, anywhere on the system. It was hard to hear sometimes but you could shoot the bull with someone until someone else wanted to use the line.

I had a very good friend, R.C. Elliott. He was a Conductor/Brakeman on the Coast with a date of 5-1-57. He was a guy that could squeeze 2 pennies together and it would come out a quarter.  He had a truck and a belly dump and would work at night driving truck and days he hired a driver and worked days for the SP.  He hauled for building of SFO airport.. It wasn't  long before that job was over so he kept a driver on full time and worked what ever jobs the SP had for him. He did all his mechanical work so when the truck broke down he had to go out and fix it. He finally had enough whiskers to hold down a TBM job on #76 , SF to LA & #75 LA back to the City. He would work about 3 or 4 trips and he would get about 6 days off. He and his brother bought  a section up at Cave Jct, and worked it. When Ralph would get into the City, his truck was loaded and off he would go to Oregon. He was caught in a blizzard in Mt. Shasta one trip and nothing was moving. He thought that would be a good time to replace the lower bearing on his engine. so he slid under and did. That's the kind of guy he was.

He talked to me about that TBM job and it wasn't a cake walk.  Most people thought that 75 & 76 was a hotshot like the Daylight. Yes they made good time but also worked a bunch of stations on the way. San Jose, Watsonville, Salinas, King City, Paso Robles, Santa Margarita and SLO on the first leg. Then it was a whole bunch of stations from there to LA. Well, by the time he had finished Paso, he would set up Margarita and then go to sleep  on the mail sacks (company mail). The head brakeman would do Margarita for him so he was rested when he got to SLO.  This went on day after day, trip after trip for years.  His wife and kids hated Oregon so he sold out to his brother and he moved the family to Atascadero and worked chain gang out of SLO. In 68-69, she advertised his job.  He said that TBM was one of the best jobs he worked and the money he made allowed him to buy land, etc around SLO County. He said the job was a killer but worth it.

Sorry for the long post,

Nudge

How about through off a newspaper? The brakeman on the eastbound George Washington used to through off the Louisville KY newspaper to the freight agent at Morehead KY.
ALLEN

krm152 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How about through off a newspaper? The brakeman
> on the eastbound George Washington used to through
> off the Louisville KY newspaper to the freight
> agent at Morehead KY.
> ALLEN

back in the 90s when Tommy the Rocket DelaRosa was running the Coast Starlate  from  Oakland to Santa Barbara, he would toss the SF Chronicle to an elderly lady who lived in Hollister Ranch near Santa Barbara. She would  be on her porch waving a small American flag. When her family moved her to a nursing home, they picked  up Tommy and asst eng Mario Castro in a limo and took them to a birthday celebration for her,
 

Carol Voss
Bakersfield, CA

When 98/99 went to a full baggage car in May, 1968, there was no baggage service to SLO except via PMT subject to delay. The TBM would drop off 98 at Salinas and return on 99 in a few hours. Likewise out of LA to SB and return on 98.

In all the time in the 60's that I worked on passenger trains on the Coast line, the baggageman always ran LA to Santa Barbara and Salinas to San Fran on both the Lark and the Daylight.  The number one man on the roster held the daylight job.   What a job, er position...On duty LA 900am, arrive SB 1134am, lv SB 346pm arrive LA 615pm, every day. He kept a fishing line and swim suit on the baggage room of the depot.    On the Coast Mail trains, the bagagemen worked thru from LA to San Jose, 19 hours on duty.  (Baggagemen were NOT subject to the hours of service law!) .  About 1966, the SP discontinued interline chacked baggage - that is between railroads - so a person traveling SB to Chicago via SP LA Santa Fe couldn't check his luggage thru.  He could check it to LA, claim it, and recheck it with Santa Fe to Chicago.  As a result, the baggagemens jobs on the coast were not very busy at all - some days there was no checked baggage at all!!  All you could do was open the baggage car door , move the chair tro the doorway,  and watch the ocean roll by.......

TIOGA PASS

Norman Orfall
Helendale, CA
TIOGA PASS, a private railcar



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/30/15 11:05 by aronco.

aronco Wrote:
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> As a
> result, the baggagemens jobs on the coast were not
> very busy at all - some days there was no checked
> baggage at all!!  All you could do was open the
> baggage car door , move the chair tro the
> doorway,  and watch the ocean roll by.......
>
> TIOGA PASS  I worked the baggage job on weekends, Norm. The regular man that owned the 7 day job had a very sick and invalid wife. He would layoff ever weekend to take care of her instead of haveing the day care nurse come in. If I didn't take my wife on the run, I'd sit in the door on the baggage car and watch all of the scenery.

Norman -

Did you ever meet the senior USPO-RPO Clerk on the Coast Mail trains - the late Lawrence H. Greiving? He started in the '50's, and worked these trains until the PO lost the contract to the airlines. I worked with his nephew, briefly, in IUOE Local 501 in LA. He gave me his grip to find a home for it, which I have in turn have given to the railroad museum at SLO.

Bob

ATSF100WEST......Out



 

Thanks to all you true Rail Roaders for telling all your stories of the past! I really like this part of this site. My Grandfather (paternal) retired from the railroad as an inspector in Vermont but started as a brakeman when he first hired on and worked his way up. I was a youngster when he passed away but his love of trains lives on in me because of the stories he told me - I never tired of hearing them! My Dad & I used to go to Union Station in Montgomery,AL every Sunday afternoon to watch the trains. My Mother never understood Why,of course.  My dad knew all about the trains and I think (as I look back) he was connecting to his Dad - my Grandpa!! Thanks Again & All Aboard!!!!

Wonderful story, Norm, thanks for posting.  

I'm going to take issue with you handling US Mail.  While I don't want to question your
memories that much, the Post Office is very strict about who handles their mail.  (I worked
for them for six years.)  Company mail, yes, but I would think the Post Office clerks handled
the US Mail. 

I don't doubt for a second that you were able to enter the RPO, but probably not until you'd 
made a couple of trips and the clerks got to know you.  That's the way those things worked;
no one close to tattle, and no harm done.  I'm sure they told you if an inspector was around
and you shouldn't be in the car.  

Tell me, did the guns put you off the first time you saw them?

Nick Tharalson,
Marion, IA

 

Several comments have been made about the TBM ( a railroad employee) handling mail in the RPO car.  On the Sunset, trains 1 & 2, the regular consist was, from the head end:                                
                                1 baggage mail car (sealed) Los Angeles to San Antonio
                                1 baggage mail car (sealed) Los Angeles to Houston
                                1 baggage mail car (sealed) Los Angeles to New Orleans
                                1 60 foot RPO/20 foot baggage car baggage compartment forward New Orleans
                                2 66 foot baggage cars working  mail and baggage LA to New Orleans
                                1 "Sunset" bagaggge dormitory car, baggage compartment forward
                                4 to 7 coaches LA to New Orleans
                                1 hamburger grill car LA to El Paso
                                3 to 8 coaches Los Angeles to El Paso
                                Diner (New Orleans)
                                Lounge ( New Orleans)
                                2 to 3 sleepers LA to New Orleans
                                1  sleeper LA to El Paso
                                21 to 25 cars LA to El Paso
The RPO clerks would routinely fill first class mail pouches, lock them and throw them thru the doorway into the baggage car behind the RPO, where the baggageman (me) was supposed to placed them on the right stack.  Sometimes the pouch had to be dragged or carried into the next car back.  Since there was no doubt the TBM had authority to handle the pouches of mail, it wasn't much of a leap of faith to go into the RPO car, and for want of anything else to do, learn how to sort letters.  The RPO men called it "knowing the scheme".  Before "ZIP" codes, you had to know that Guerneyville went to Eureka, and Quincy went to Portola, and Keene went to SFran & LA Tr. 51 RPO, and so forth.
The only time I ever got worried about the pistols was when two RPO clerks, who had been partaking of a "bit of the nectar" while working, got into a argument, then a shouting match, and finally one of them drew his pistol.  I decided to leave the RPO quickly.
The RPO jobs were long hour positions, usually 10 to 14 hours long, in less than ideal conditions.  There was a lot of drinking on some crews.  One of the problems was what to do with the empty cans and bottles....The shouldn't be just thrown out as they could hit someone or been seen along the right of way. They couldn't be laft on the car where crews swapped out.  The favorite trick was to double bag the empties and tag the pouch for delivery to the opposing train at the meeting point, and those guys could figure out how to ditch them.  Of course, this was always done wth a lot of joking and laughter,
Norm
 

 

Norman Orfall
Helendale, CA
TIOGA PASS, a private railcar



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/02/15 13:16 by aronco.

aronco wrote:

> Most passenger trains in the 1960's had Railway Post Office cars, (RPO's).... As the train passed smaller cities where the train did not stop, mail would be "exchanged" on the fly.  For instance, the San Joaquin Daylight, SP train 51,  left LA at about 600am, and exchanged mail without stopping at San Fernando, Saugus, Palmdale, Monolith, Keene, Tipton, and Kingsburg.

In the '60s, there was no exchange of mail at Keene (railroad name Woodford) by No. 51.  The train did exchange mail at Caliente, though (see the photo sequence  in the book "Growing Up with Trains:  A Southern California Album" of the Caliente post office clerk placing a mail bag on the Caliente mail crane for No. 51).

This is my favorite section in that as a child I would walk down to the Santa Fe station which was only three blocks from our house and as I watched the passenger trains arrive I often wondered what those men in those RPO cars were doing.

Thanks for the memories, Norm!

<> When I used to work San Bernardino Telegraph circa 1979-1980, we used to have to go out and pick up the "soup tickets" that the UP trains would throw to us as they passed by the San Bernardino Yard / Train Order office.  Usually accompanied by a paper clip to give it some weight, the little slip of paper would tell us important information that would be passed along to the dispatcher.  Engines, crew, loads, empties, tons, length . . . whether there were going to be any set outs or pick ups between San Bernardino and Daggett, etc.

The code phone that linked all of us train order operators with the dispatcher was like a big party line.  You could put on the headphones and eavesdrop on conversations between the other operators and the dispatcher.  This was before diversity, political correctness and a fear that you might be "turned in" by a co-worker for the least little thing.  I remember listening in to one conversation where a female operator was telling a male dispatcher the locations where she would sometimes skinny dip in the Mojave River.  

<> When I used to work at Redondo Junction Tower circa 1980-1985, the northbound SAN DIEGANS would toss off a little slip of paper indicating delays that were encountered since San Diego.  As you mentioned, they would be shaped into a little cone and had some lead on the point so they would sail through the air better.  This information was passed along to the dispatcher.  

Needless to say, the flyover there now has changed the method-of-operation just a tad!  

<> I worked with a clerk (his name escapes me now) who hired out as a fireman and was cut off when the 1964 Proposition 17 initiative did not pan out in favor of organized labor.  He switched to another craft and became a baggeman and mingled with the RPO clerks as you described.  Sorting mail and baggage, he said that, while traveling eastbound on the old "Second District," clattering over the Pacific Electric diamond at Euclid Avenue in Upland would assure the employees that they had a specific number of minutes before the stop at San Bernardino. 

And I'll leave you with this, lifted from another post I made here months ago:A friend sent this to me and I figured I'd pass it along. Whether it's true or not is hard to say, but it's still a funny story! 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

A Milwaukee Road crew had a brand new trainman and he got an extra board job on one of the passenger trains. His conductor told him, "You've been here for several trips.  Do you think I can entrust you to pick up the train orders on the fly at this upcoming station without you screwing it up?"

The new employee assured the conductor that he could do so.  

A few minutes later the new employee came up to the conductor and exclaimed, "It almost tore my arm off, but I got 'em!" while holding a mail bag.