Railroaders' Nostalgia > No place for a roll by!

Here’s a very unfamiliar view* of an every day occurrence in train service. It’s a simple meet between a regular manifest train & my tie-dumping work train. There has been some discussion in the past about train crew members getting down on the ground to give a “roll-by inspection” to another train they are meeting. It’s a standard operating rule in train service which goes something like this: “At meet points, when practicable a member of the crew will climb down and give the train to be met a roll-by inspection from the ground on the opposite side.” I’m sure I’ve missed the precise wording of this rule, but hey: it’s been nearly 6 years since I’ve had to crack open the ‘general code’! The kicker is that phrase: “when practicable.” Most operating rules, especially the one above have a sort of built-in escape clause. When a rule obeyed puts someone in harm’s way another operating rule comes along and says: “When in doubt, take the SAFE course”. Many times in the RR world the the safest place to roll another train by is right there inside your cab. This second rule mentioned has absolute precedence over the first rule. And it was the rule I was technically observing in this situation.

My hogger, a friendly young extra-board engineer by the name of Lou Rees was cool with me shooting pictures. I had done so a couple of times before with him as my engineer. We had been dumping bales of brand new ties all over the main line in the El Dorado, KS area. Santa Fe was gearing up for a complete tie replacement/ballast rehabilitation project that would take up a great deal of the summer of 1979. For some now forgotten reason we were running our train east toward Ellinor on the 4th District (Middle Division). The DS had run us in at Matfield Green for at least 1 westbound. With our Geep-20 running long hood forward I had an opportunity to shoot a meet shot from my seat in the cab, which I had done many times before. But for this one would I be shooting from a very unusual angle; into the rear view mirror. For composition my main intent was a vertical focus on the train approaching in that mirror. But my camera also caught a secondary subject, which turns out to be the exact reason I’m was NOT down on the ground the first place. Take a look at that ground outside the mirror just on the other side of the mainline. Bingo! It drops down very sharply for several yards. If I was on the ground inspecting a train and it decided to derail right at that location I wouldn’t have to worry much about what I’ll be doing next week. Or tomorrow. Or later on in the same day for that matter. In fact I would most likely only have a few precious seconds of thought before I would permanently no longer have to worry about any thing on this good Earth. In the event of a derailment in this situation the ONLY possible escape route would be to try and run (ha-ha) down that steep embankment. But I would just end up rolling like a lumpy bag o’ bones. Of course, I would be rolling, being followed by out-of-control derailing locomotives or cars that had just been moving at speeds up to 55 MPH. Even then, the progress of my bag-of-bones body ‘rolling’ down that slope would surely have been hampered by a slightly different & freshly emerged lump inside my work apparel. All things considered it was NOT a desirable position to put one’s self in…

During my Santa Fe years I found it was customary for most train crewmen to stay put inside their cab at meet points. The prevailing wisdom was that so many of Santa Fe’s trains ran at such high speeds (up to & including 70 MPH) that even on flat, clear ground it was considered safer to remain inside a cab unless you could get many yards away from the passing train. Staying in the cab provided better protection from unknown debris falling off of a train or (as unlikely as it seems) having a train kick up something from the ground at previously mentioned speeds of “up to 70 MPH”. I believe in that same year of 1979 I remember another trip riding the waycar on a 304(?) train between Emporia & Sand Creek (Newton), KS. As I recall, somewhere around 3 AM we were put away in the siding at Florence. We knew from radio traffic we would be stuck there for Amtrak #4 and at least one more eastbound freight. Pretty soon I could hear #4 whistling a greeting at our head end crew so I grabbed my lantern and started for the door to watch the Southwest Limited blow by. My conductor, Richard Spencer quickly & sternly put the kibosh on that plan, telling me it was much safer to just stay in the waycar. After thinking about standing in total darkness within a train rolling by a few yards away at 79 MPH I realized the wisdom in Richard’s directive.

Throughout the remainder of my career I found numerous times where it was safer to roll another train by from the cab. And I never once got in trouble from that practice…

1. AT&SF 8504 is pulling train 315 CJ-1 over the east siding switch at Matfield Green, KS on May 30, 1979. *Taken by pointing my camera into the rear view mirror on the brakeman’s (fireman’s) side of the cab of AT&SF 3159 which is running long-hood forward on work train “WORK CJ-1”.

Thanks for looking in the mirror!
Lance Garrels
santafe199



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/16 05:17 by santafe199.

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One of the best "artsy" shots I've seen. Looks like a picture within a picture. Nice work

PQM



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/16 05:47 by BNSF-6432.

Great shot and story, Lance!
Randy Lundgren

I enjoy your stories as much as your pics!! 

You should have got down on the engineer's side and rolled the train by. With no caboose, there is no one on the rear to roll the other side; the result being your crew would fail a test and the train that went by would be in possible danger. What if that crew was wondering about a possible hot box and was counting on you being alert? There are many possible bad results. If I had been the hoghead you would not have been distracted by using your camera on duty. There are  reasons railroads do not like to hire foamers: they feel entitled and are easily distracted and they think they know it all. I am glad you were smart enough to interpret the simple rule to your liking.

WHOA. holy hell batman.

Posted from Android

DG .
Unknown, US

alamedafrank Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You should have got down on the engineer's side
> and rolled the train by. With no caboose, there is
> no one on the rear to roll the other side; the
> result being your crew would fail a test and the
> train that went by would be in possible danger.
> What if that crew was wondering about a possible
> hot box and was counting on you being alert? There
> are many possible bad results. If I had been the
> hoghead you would not have been distracted by
> using your camera on duty. There are  reasons
> railroads do not like to hire foamers: they feel
> entitled and are easily distracted and they think
> they know it all. I am glad you were smart enough
> to interpret the simple rule to your liking.

Woah, down boy, down. The opposite side seems to have a steep incline that would be very difficult to climb in a hurry. Lance, I love the photo. It's a very interesting angle.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/16 19:21 by offthebeatentrack.

I think, somewhere in GCOR it states: Do not feed the trolls.

Robert Pierce
Sugar Land, TX
SWRails.com

alamedafrank Wrote: > ... With no caboose, there is...
WHO said there was no caboose?????????

> ... What if that crew was wondering about a possible hot box...
If they were concerned about a possible hotbox they would have stopped to check it out,
JUST LIKE THE RULE INSTRUCTS THEM TO
and they would radio ahead for our assistance 

> You should have got down on the engineer's side...
DO YOU HAVE INTIMATE KNOWLEDGE OF THE
TERRAIN ON THE ENGINEER'S SIDE?????
(Uh huh... I didn't think so)

> feel entitled and ... think they know it all.
SHEESH!!! TALK ABOUT A KNOW-IT-ALL!!!!!
You should go look in the mirror.

> ... smart enough to interpret...
The ONLY thing smart here is your mouth. If you're going regurgitate this nasty tirade in my direction the FIRST thing you're going to do is put some brass in your britches and sign your real name to your attack. Since you were waaay too much of a coward to do so I suggest you crawl down off your defective soapbox and take it back to the dollar store for a refund...

Lance Garrels
santafe199



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/13/16 11:31 by santafe199.

Mess with our minds and post it in "mirror" format...

Great work, to!

 

Jim Montague
IRVINE, CA
Train and Nature photo Art

Maybe he should get off of his high horse and look up what a way car is. 

3751_loony Wrote: > ...Mess with our minds and post it in "mirror" format...

Good idea, Jim, here you go! (but you might need a mirror to ‘cypher the caption words’… ;^)

2. “1-JC KROW” niart krow no drawof dooh-gnol gninnur si hcihw 9513 FS&TA fo bac eht fo edis (s’namerif) s’namekarb eht no rorrim weiv raer eht otni aremac ym gnitniop yb nekaT* .9791 ,03 yaM no SK ,neerG dleiftaM ta hctiws gnidis tsae eht revo 1-JC 513 niart gninnur si 4058 FS&TA



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/13/16 08:53 by santafe199.

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On CSX until very recently this was not optional, the only exception was if you did not have 30' from the track to stand.  Many trainmen were disiplined for failing to do it.

That's a great image! And great stories lance. Keep em comin. Don't let a troll bring ya down. Goats blat!

LocoCam Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> On CSX until very recently this was not optional, the only exception
> was if you did not have 30' from the track to stand.  Many trainmen
> were disiplined for failing to do it.

Yep. If one cannot be a safe distance away from the moving equipment it would not be "practicable" to do the far side roll by.

alamedafrank Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You should have got down on the engineer's side
> and rolled the train by. With no caboose, there is
> no one on the rear to roll the other side; the
> result being your crew would fail a test and the
> train that went by would be in possible danger.
> What if that crew was wondering about a possible
> hot box and was counting on you being alert? There
> are many possible bad results. If I had been the
> hoghead you would not have been distracted by
> using your camera on duty. There are  reasons
> railroads do not like to hire foamers: they feel
> entitled and are easily distracted and they think
> they know it all. I am glad you were smart enough
> to interpret the simple rule to your liking. I kind of resented  the remark about hiring railfans/foamers.  First off, I carried my camera with me on the job the entire time I worked,which was 41 years  and not once did ever interfere with my doing my job.  Not once did ever any of the people I work with object to or say anything about me taking pictures on the job.  Finally,all  my managers all knew I was a railfan and had no objection to it;even into this this era, with "you can't take pictures on the job" rule. One manager even told me that he wished more people took an interest in their job like I did.  I don;t know what your back round is,but I will tell you Lance and others like him who took pictures on the job did so in such a way that it didn't interfere with their job.

.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/14/16 23:02 by IC1038west.

What a joke, alamedafrank posts an attack like that then doesn't even return to stand by his own words.

Go figure.

Posted from Android

DG .
Unknown, US

CSX had to repeal the rule about watching trains from the ground when a lawsuit was finally settled. A conductor who got off (like he was told to) and was inspecting a passing train was hit in the chest by a brake shoe that had come off of a mail train going over rough track (remember, this is CSX we're talking about).  That settlement changed the rule...and he (while in constant pain) will never be able to work at the railroad again.

I can see and hear anything wrong with a train from the cab...I don't need to be on the ground to see a hotbox or a chain dragging...

As an aside, we have a somewhat morbid joke at our terminal that you aren't considered a REAL railroader until you have a rule changed or added because of something you did...
For instance we had a conductor named JP- on a puller job he kicked cars in the bowl at the hump yard(Was trying to bury a hazmat for an outbound train).  He byassed a coupler and derailed them.  The Carrier wanted him fired , however in the investiagion he was exonerated and he did not serve time for that  because there was no rule against that...There is now--it's "The JP Rule."

 

santafe199 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> 2. “1-JC KROW” niart krow no drawof dooh-gnol
> gninnur si hcihw 9513 FS&TA fo bac eht fo edis
> (s’namerif) s’namekarb eht no rorrim weiv raer
> eht otni aremac ym gnitniop yb nekaT* .9791 ,03
> yaM no SK ,neerG dleiftaM ta hctiws gnidis tsae
> eht revo 1-JC 513 niart gninnur si 4058 FS&TA

Totally hilarious!!  After this thread almost bit the employee field-dressing bullet, you put it's status back to the original intentions; to learn, to share, and to have fun.  (Just give them what they want!!). Great story,  !!llew sa segami eht dekil I

.tsew8301CI