Railroaders' Nostalgia > Hate Week ????

How many of you remember "Hate Week" ? 

Post your answers and I will add mine. Then again, there may not be any that remember.  Sad day for the SP and the guys who working T&E runs.


Nudge

July, 1971, lasted for a couple weeks or so. SP tried to run trains on the Western Div, not too successful



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 04/04/16 07:58 by WAF.

I remember it well.  Got pulled off a cushy commute fireman's job and assigned to a midnight hostler helper job.  AT BAYSHORE!  

July, 1971 was during the selective UTU strike against UP. Lasted for something like 4 weeks or a month, if I recall correctly. DId the UTU strike dates against the SP coincide with the UTU strike dates against SP? If I recall correctly, the strike against UP started on or about July 15 and the strike ended around August 15.

I was really lucky, the UTU chose not to strike UP subsidiary Spokane International, and there was an open job on the SI that I got to fill. So I didn't lose any working time because of the strike.

Best regards,

Rob L.

rob_l Wrote:
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> July, 1971 was during the selective UTU strike
> against UP. Lasted for something like 4 weeks or a
> month, if I recall correctly. DId the UTU strike
> dates against the SP coincide with the UTU strike
> dates against SP? If I recall correctly, the
> strike against UP started on or about July 15 and
> the strike ended around August 15.
>

> Best regards,
>
> Rob L
If I remember, Rob, the dates did coincide. The SP promulgated the rules for about 2 weeks before we walked out. At the time my regular job was the PE's WingFoot job out of 8Th St. About 4 days of SP's asinine antics of promulgation, I received a call from the crew dspr and was told that I was released from my job and was now called to make a run with Condr Albert Jehl to Santa Barbara. Well, okay. The SBA run up the coast was always nice. So off we go, enjoying a great daylight trip to SBA. When we were approaching SBA the operator called Albert and told him I was to detrain, and Albert was to stay on he train to San Luis Obispo. Albert was actually ecstatic to continue on as he had never been above SBA. I saw him about a month later and he said they took him all of the way to Watsonville JCT. We finally went out on strike and I was assigned to the line at the PE building in downtown Los Angeles.




SLOCONDR
.

Totally crazy. Sending people who never have been over the line
 

WAF Wrote:
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> Totally crazy. Sending people who never have been
> over the line

BN did that with Maintenance of Way in the late 80s, doing away with seniority districts and assignments and making them all work at large. They might show up at the shanty for their regular assignment and find out when they got to work that they would be working 300 miles from home with no expectation of return until we tell you.

Harrington, ~ 40 miles west of Spokane (the one in WA), is in a big S Curve. The railroad runs N-S; railroad direction is E-W matching the geographic directions between Wenatchee and Spokane.  The railroad was double track Rule 251. Gandy authority was a lineup. A guy called and told me that he was from Idaho, had spent his entire career in CTC, had never used a lineup and had never been anywhere near where he was now. He wanted to know if his assessment that he was good on the westbound until 330p was correct. I told him that it was. Then he asked which track is westbound. I asked which phone he was calling from. He was on the phone in the box on the front wall of the depot. I told him that the track next to him was the westward track. He thanked me profusely.

Another out of towner set onto the wrong track on a CTC permit in Everett. He was ok but his truck was erased. The dispatcher didn't violate any rules and therefore couldn't receive discipline, except for a private session with the Supt of Transportation in which it was stated that he expected dispatchers to question everyone before issuing a permit and to explain in detail how to identify directions and the applicable track. At the time, most of the jobs in Seattle were sticking out 50-80 permits a shift.

TAW

Yes, I remember “Hate Week”
 
First of all for those who don’t know what Hate Week was, and someone could sure correct me, but as we heard and I remember; one of the Eastern Roads wanted to change some part of their contract with UTU [United Transportation Union, who represented trainmen switchmen].  The UTU said they would strike the specific road if it implemented the change.  The thing expanded into all of the roads in the AAR [Association of American RRs] against the nation-wide UTU as each side backed their “brothers” as the AAR told the UTU that if it struck the one road they would cancel all contract agreements with the UTU across the country. Well the road executed the change and the UTU struck the one road, but the AAR hand was called, and they dissolved all work agreements with the UTU nation wide.

So for a week, [thus “Hate Week”] the railroads would eliminate operating agreements for train and yard crews.  Just a few of the things I can think of: all of the trainmen [Conductors, Brakemen and even Switchmen] were thrown in as general pool with no respect for seniority or normal assignments and the crew dispatchers would call whomever they wanted for whatever job came up.  So junior men would be called for jobs their date would hold for years, and senior Conductors might be sent to pull pins on a midnight hump job.  Normal crew change districts were eliminated so crews were run through to the next terminal.  Arriving or departing a terminal, train crews were instructed to do things that “belonged” to another craft.  Like lining our train or another into and out of a yard, [normally a Herder’s assignment], couple air hoses and do airbrake tests in the yard, [Carman’s work] and Yard Switchmen could go beyond their agreed limits and work territory protected for Trainmen, or called outright to work as a brakeman on a pool freight run, etc, etc, etc. *
 
I was a pretty young SP brakeman and we heard, at least on the SP, management didn’t want anything to do with the mess as they were not involved with the dispute.  And while no doubt wanted labor agreement changes for their benefit, was living fine with their relations with the UTU, and visa-versa.  However the SP had signed on to the AAR’s edict.  The UTU of course countered that this would mean System wide strike.  So for us on the SP the whole thing was really ridiculous. 
 
After a week of this, the UTU implemented their right to strike and thus ended Hate Week and entered a week of classic picket lines with Management and “scabs” trying to run the trains.  Of course on a huge road like the SP there were only so many qualified Engineers, so only a fraction of the customers got switched and only high priority freights ran.  Lots of “fun” stories like watching a billing clerk from the general office trying to switch cars not knowing that you have to bunch the slack before you can pull a pin, or turn the angle cock before cutting off from a car.  Then not knowing you need to bleed off cut of cars to switch them.
 
After about a week, the Government stepped in and declared the strike was creating too much disruption in the country’s economy and order everyone back to work under existing agreements.  We, [the UTU] and the SP were very glad to get back to normal.
 
As this forum is a kind of e-Sand House for RR stories, here are a couple I remember from Hate Week. [What's the differance between a Fairy Tell and a railoader's story, one begins with "Once apon a time. . ." and the other begins with "now this is no S**T. . . "] so here are a couple of my stories of Hate Week:

I was working SP’s Los Angeles Div. West End, which was a pool freight job with layover in Indio.  Arriving at Indio we were instructed to continue on to Yuma.  Knowing having the engineer run though on a district he had not worked was bad idea, we got an “East End” engineer at Indio.  For those of you who might know some of the personalities my Conductor was Al Maldonado, [Al was a real Character with a capitol C on the LA Division.  How many conductors have you worked with who would come to work waring a beanie with a propeller, or pull out a giant 2 foot long gag comb and comb his very bald head while being dressed down by some Tranmaster?].  I think my new engineer was Randy Oliver.  He was a really nice guy and even brought us sack lunches knowing we probably not be notified of the run though until we got to Indio and not have planned to have a lunch for the extended trip.
 
Another trip I was called as Conductor on a Mojave Turn which belonged to the San Joaquin seniority Conductors, [I was LA Div.]  The Mojave Turn would layover at Mojave and bring a train back to LA the next day.  My two brakemen were yard switchmen who had never worked a road trip, well enough Train Order Territory.  They thought it was great fun and got stinking drunk in Mojave, in fact they were still so when we went on duty the next day.  Again for those who might know, J.B. Nunley was one of my bunnies.  Probably No. 1 on the LA Div. Switchmen’s character list.
 
I have more adventures on Hate Week, and the Strike Week that followed.  But I yield the floor to others who no doubt match or best my adventures.
 
J.P. Bray

*Funny, years later how many of the Hate Week contract violations we would be doing by agreed contract changes.
 
 
 

Pardon my bolded message, didn't relize it was all in bold until posted

Fortunately I hired out after "Hate Week" and based on the stories I heard I'm certainly glad I did - ugly period! I'll be looking forward to reading more from those who lived through it.

 

"Hate Week". Missed it completely because it happened during the 4-week "vacation" window for marking up after I was discharged from active duty. Add to this a few days for writing the book of rules, and I wound up marking up during the strike.

I've since learned that it occurred during the period of self-help availability to either side of the dispute, as specified by the Railway Labor Act: the carrier was free to lock out or impose it's own set of rules (which is what it did) and the unions were free to strike (which the UTU did). The BLE, having already signed their contract, wasn't affected until the UTU walked, at which point they honored the picket lines.

This occurred right after I hired on the NWP in Eureka.  As I recall, it was a rolling strike in order to reduce the threat of government intervention.

The NWP craft employees were instructed by the union not to walk, and we ended up being permanently assigned for the duration to the jobs we were working the day the company implemented the "new" rules.  For me, that was Job 301, OD at 2PM, which was about the best local job in town; Fred Horrigan was the conductor and Charlie Nelson the Engineer.  Local management (Fowler/Ford) instructed us to put in for the full 8 hours, even if we got an early quit.  Meanwhile, RFE Lewis was running trains on the Sunset Route.

The NWP trains put together by management crews in Roseville were pretty sorry.  I remember bad orders without doors, and they even managed to get an 80' hy-cube box car all the way up to Eureka without tearing up the tunnels {too much}.

I was really too new at the game to realize what was going on or the long-term implications.  For me, personally, it was a positive situation, as the permanent assignment presented the opportunity to build up my confidence and learn a lot in a short period of time with a couple of patient veterans. 



       

Yes I remember hate week..  Our wages were cut to $1.65 an hour.  I ended up in Yuma on two separate trips.  Have never been back..  The crew districts were disolved.. One LA switchman ended up in Roseville and had to pay his own way back. I was lucky enough to catch a deadhead ride on a 10 unit caboose hop from Yuma to LA.

I too remember it well.  Was at the simulator (Cerritos) and told to go home (on my own $$, of course). Got home and the crew dispatcher said I could have my old run back, fireman on #11 - 14, Oakland to Gerber.  "Oh, and by the way, you'll be running through to Klamath Falls". Neat! Nothing better for this rail enthusiast then to work new territory. All night run and 3 hogheads later, it was still just as exciting as I expected. 

RDF

TOTAL Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I too remember it well.  Was at the simulator
> (Cerritos) and told to go home (on my own $$, of
> course). Got home and the crew dispatcher said I
> could have my old run back, fireman on #11 - 14,
> Oakland to Gerber.  "Oh, and by the way, you'll
> be running through to Klamath Falls". Neat!
> Nothing better for this rail enthusiast then to
> work new territory. All night run and 3 hogheads
> later, it was still just as exciting as I
> expected. 
>
> RDF

Wait. Why didn't the hoghead out of OA run through with you?

>Wait. Why didn't the hoghead out of OA run through with you?

Because the BLE had already settled their contract, and when these interdivisional runs were established, they didn't agree to Oak-Kfs runs. The firemen were in the UTU, and Hate Week was directed at the UTU.

EtoinShrdlu Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >Wait. Why didn't the hoghead out of OA run
> through with you?
>
> Because the BLE had already settled their
> contract, and when these interdivisional runs were
> established, they didn't agree to Oak-Kfs runs.
> The firemen were in the UTU, and Hate Week was
> directed at the UTU.

Thanks for clearing that up

   During "Hate Week," I was working as a brakeman between Palmdale and Indio over the Colton-Palmdale Cutoff.  The SP didn't mess with us too much, account we were about dead on the HOS at both ends most of the time.  Except, of course, working for about $3.33 an hour.  I understand the Santa Fe men were working for minimum wage.  On the last day before the strike started, my crew was called to go from Indio to Yuma.  D.D. Burke was the conductor, and Winston Garth was the other brakeman.  Jim  "Tex" Todd, (of later Indio rear end collision fame) was the engineer.
   When we arrived in Yuma, we were told we were on our own.  Todd disappeared, so Burke, Winnie, and I caught a Greyhound bus for Indio.
   When we got to Indio, we were wondering how we were going to get back to Palmdale.  Buirke had a car he wanted to drive up to Palmdale, but it was only a little two-seater.
   Somehow, I don't remember how, Winnie and I met up with Dan Popejoy, also a Palmdale-Indio trainman.  He said, "my wife and I are driving to Palmdale to visit relatives, would we like to ride along?
   Problem solved!  Dan Popejoy was one of the nicest guys you ever want to meet.  Winnie and I even offered to pay for the gas, but Dan wouldn't hear of it.  Winnie and I did our picket duty at Palmdale, and several times, we watched a certain San Joaquin Division engineer blatantly scab on us.  He would even smile and wave at us as he passed by.
   After the strike, he was totally shunned and ostracised by everyone, even the officials.

Brian Black
Castle Rock, CO

I am surprised I got so many answers. I was working as a fireman in July of 1971 out of SLO when it hit the fan.  

The reason it started was that the contract agreement and provisions between the SP and UTU expired.  The UTU was not able to go out on strike due to the dates the Railroad Labor Act had established.  Knowing this, the SP threw all the work rules out the window for a few weeks and were allowed to do anything they wanted, to anyone that was represented by the UTU. On the SP the UTU held the contract for Conductors, Brakemen, Switchmen and Fireman.  The BLE had the contract for engineers. 

The first thing the SP did was to pay only the minimum wage. The second thing was to toss all the work rules out the window. There was nothing that we could do until the Railroad Labor Act allowed us to strike. Keep in mind that the Engineers (BofLE) were not party to this agreement and were still working under their old contract.  Trainmen were sent every where. They had to find their own lodging, etc.  We had a conductor wind up in Dunsmuir after being worked to LA, Bakersfield, up to Oakland, Sacramento,  Fresno, Roseville and finally Dunsmuir.  No notice of where they would be going next or when. If a trainmen reached say Santa Barbara, going east, they would change the engineer but nobody else.  

I went back through my old time books and it was pretty sad what they did to us. Back then there were 3 to 4 regular assigned helper jobs. I was assigned to Helper Run 152 as a fireman. The first day, I was called for a helper with Ray Ridgeway as the engineer. 7:30 AM on duty to run lite to Margarita to help an east man. We had the 6563-9042 & 8667. We were back and tied up in SLO by 11:30 AM. I was paid $14.42, Not even a third of my usual wages. On the 18th I was never called so I should have been paid a dead day. Nothing.

On the 19th the SP cut off all regular assigned jobs that the UTU  had the contract for. Again trainmen, fireman, etc.  (As a side note, back then if the union ran or controlled the Fireman's Extra Board, there was no guarantee involved. If the carrier ran the the board, there was a guarantee that the carrier paid..)
Well, I didn't turn a wheel until 2 days before the day we we could go out on strike.. I was called for a work train with Frazier Neil as the engineer with the 3003 and we only knew one of the trainmen. The "head" man was out of LA and had only worked a a switchman in the basin for over 35 years.

We tied up the first night in Lompoc.  The next morning we went to work and got a message with our work orders that stated as follows: 

To C & E Work Train Extra 3003 at Lompoc. 
After you have finished today's work, run cab hop Santa Barbara to LA.  EAN

Well we knew at midnight the game was up and we didn't want to be trapped with no way to get home. Well, we worked between Surf and Goleta most of the day and made sure we kept moving west. When we got towards Honda our time was running out so we went to Surf. The conductor went inside and had our work orders busted and asked for running orders to SLO. The trick dispatcher didn't want to do that because of the message. Well, Roy called EAN on the side phone and explained what the deal was. With the time we had left to work we would be lucky to make Santa Barb with all the west traffic coming at us. but we could make SOL, if not Grover before we died. EAN talked to the trick dispatcher and off we went to SLO. We died at the cab track at  9:00 PM, 14 hours on duty. We got the two LA guys bus passes and the crew dispatcher got them to to the depot so they they could get home. Not very many other people were as lucky.

Then, the fun started at midnight. Watching officers from who knows where try to get trains, some with helpers over the hill.  The "Caboose" (gin mill) was filled watching the fun.

That to me was a time when upper management showed their true colors. They went way out of their way to make life hell for us.


Nudge

 

Brian,

Was that "The" D D Burke ?  I think he was the one that used a flare gun to call in the flag on the new, dark, Colton cut-off. It was a hell of a fire.
Oh, he also used to tell every one, "I have a card from the State Hospital in Camarillo that said I am sane.  Do You ?"


Nudge. 

Any relation to Eng on SJ Div  in the 70s?