Railroaders' Nostalgia > Curiosity killed the cat

If not the cat, then the axles.

I'm young and don't have a whole lot of railroad experience. At this point, I'm wondering if I'll ever get more. The little time I did have was certainly action packed though, and I'd love to share one of the stories with you. The railroad is still in operation, obviously, and a few of the people involved are still in the industry, so I'm going to be a bit vague.

I started working at a railroad in the southwest in 2010. I took kind of a classic route - started out as a car cleaner, then worked my way up to fireman, brakeman, switchman, conductor, and later dispatcher (although I never saw office time outside of my training). After proving that I could work the crafts that you could train a turnip to do, the trainmaster decided to give me the good ol' deep end training for conductor because he needed a lot of work trains run and I was next in line for seniority. After my day with him learning the ropes - mostly via radio - by dropping off rail sticks, I was assigned to a pretty good job: three days doing ballast trains for 12 hours each, then two nights working on the switch crew at the home terminal. I enjoyed it; the railroad went through some amazing country and I felt great. The paychecks didn't hurt either.

One day I was scheduled to be a conductor on a work train that was pretty simple: the locomotive, a flatcar loaded with bridge timbers, a caboose, and five hoppers loaded with ballast. There was a deck bridge up near the north end of the line that needed to be rebuilt. We were going to run the train up to the loading point for ballast, then up to the siding nearest the bridge, then run around and couple the locomotive on the end. The next night, we'd just shove it up to the end of the rail and let the MoW guys work their magic. The caboose was mixed in to provide a warm shelter close to the work site. The bridge was being built October 31/November 1, and overnight temperatures had already started dropping below freezing. My engineer on the train headed north was the trainmaster, an almost icy, yet knowledgeable man. He didn't care about hurting feelings and wanted to get everything done as safely and efficiently as possible. We got the train, loaded the ballast, and headed north.

Our instructions were to clear the main at the last named point. For those curious as to where this was, here's a clue: the station was at the top of the hill and was aptly named until being renamed in the '90s/'00s for a beloved employee who passed away. We had to wait to run the power around because the regular passenger train was due by shortly after our arrival at the siding. The passenger train had been getting the last twenty miles or so piece mealed to them as we cleared limits. We get in the hole, and despite already knowing that the train is a good twenty minutes behind us, the trainmaster hops out of the cab and starts pacing. I mosey around, checking out the remains of the wye that was there, watching birds, when my radio keys up. The pax train was calling the DS and the engineer sounded pissed. Engineer reports the train into emergency and no one really knows why, and they're stopped at MP xx.x. He confirms that the conductor and brakeman are already walking the train and he'll let the DS know when they're moving. I'm thinking that the area they're stopped in is 40 mph, and big holing at 40 mph usually isn't pretty.

A few minutes passed and the radio keys up again. "XXX to DS, over."

"DS, go ahead."

"Someone on the observation car decided to see what the big red handle did. We've pumped up, tested, and we're about to roll again, over."

The dispatcher decided to take the opportunity to give that train the rest of the railroad and sent them on their way. About half an hour late, the engineer on the pax train calls my train and lets us know he's a half mile out. I confirm we're all in the clear and that the trainmaster and I will do a roll by. Pax train finally shows up and holy moses, I heard horses, but not the horsepower. Of the twelve cars, a solid five had flat spots. The trainmaster, not carrying a radio, looked at me and growled "Gimme your radio!" I handed it over without hesitation. The TM was intimidating. He calls up the pax train and says "You've got flat spots on cars V, W, X, Y, and Z. Do you have any idea who dumped it?" The engineer replied "Yeah, the conductor found the lady. Said she was just curious." The TM turned bright red and yelled in frustration. He got back on the radio and said "GET HER CONTACT INFO BEFORE SHE GETS OFF THE TRAIN! Work train out."

A few days later, I inquired directly to the trainmaster what happened as a result of it. I already knew that at least four of the affected axles had condemning flat spots but, not having inspected them myself, didn't know if there was more. All he would tell me was that there was more wheels being changed than I knew of, but nothing more. I dug around the car shop guys a bit and found an additional three axles with flat spots, and that the company was deliberating as to whether or not they could send this lady a bill for the damage she caused.

Unfortunately, I never did find out what happened after that. The trainmaster was gone shortly after I was, and I never got in touch with him to find out. I can only imagine the look on that poor woman's face after she pulled the conductor's valve, though!

Perfect example of why I avoid working passenger trains whenever possible. Not that this happens often but the list of stupid passenger tricks seems to be endless.

Interesting that so many flat spots resulted. I've been in private cars on two Amtrak trains that went into emergency.

One was on #5 in 79 mph territory going through Battle Mountain.  We came "this close" to repeating the previous Amtrak Nevada accident with a double bottom dump truck at a crossing.

The other was on #11 in 70 mph territory at Grover Beach where we got a air hose.

In neither case was there any indication of any flat spots, and certainly no flat spots on the private cars.

​The dynamics of a passenger train travelling at 70-90mpy going into emergency are far different that those of a train going 10-15 mph.

​I've been on several trains both on a private car and on the regular consist and there is far less wheel damage at high speed that at low speed. At low speed a passenger train tends to stop almost immediately resulting in flat spots.

​So far as private cars are concerned, the owners tend to make sure the braking ratio is matched to the car weight. Most, but not all, PV's also have decelostats which bleed air when a wheel slide is detected. Both measures prevent slid flat wheels.

Are you sure you are not AKA "ValvePilot"?

px320 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ​The dynamics of a passenger train travelling at
> 70-90mpy going into emergency are far different
> that those of a train going 10-15 mph.
>
> ​I've been on several trains both on a private
> car and on the regular consist and there is far
> less wheel damage at high speed that at low speed.
> At low speed a passenger train tends to stop
> almost immediately resulting in flat spots.
>
> ​So far as private cars are concerned, the
> owners tend to make sure the braking ratio is
> matched to the car weight. Most, but not all, PV's
> also have decelostats which bleed air when a wheel
> slide is detected. Both measures prevent slid flat
> wheels.

On the PVs I've had flat spots have usually come from handbrakes being left on.

Ah yes the train master aka "Shovie the wonder clown" according to a certain BNSF employee who worked at the same RR to the big ditch. Ask that TM about playing bumper cars on I-40 in a company truck in a snow storm or the company viehicle stripped in LA. The then DS sent him back in AMTK coach.

Dreamer

Posted from Android

>So far as private cars are concerned, the owners tend to make sure the braking ratio is matched to the car weight.

Braking ratio has been an inherent design factor in all rr cars, passenger and freight, for at least 120 years. The difference between the two types is that freight braking ratios are in the neighborhood of 70-75% empty and 30-35% loaded (not including empty/load braking systems). With passenger, the ratios can be anywhere from 100 to 200% depending on the brake system (and no, they don't operate at 200% at speeds lower than about 60 mph). The higher braking ratio isn't really necessary when composition brake shoes are used.

>Most, but not all, PV's also have decelostats which bleed air when a wheel slide is detected.

So do all modern-day passenger cars. Any car using one body-mounted brake cylinder isn't too likely to have an anti-slide system. There are regulations concerning keeping the anti-slide systems in operating condition.
 

EtoinShrdlu Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >Most, but not all, PV's also have decelostats
> which bleed air when a wheel slide is detected.
>
> So do all modern-day passenger cars. Any car using
> one body-mounted brake cylinder isn't too likely
> to have an anti-slide system. There are
> regulations concerning keeping the anti-slide
> systems in operating condition.

As I recall, there was only one car on the train that had body mounted brakes, and that was the only one I expected to have flat spots by nature. A couple were cars with truck mounted cylinder and tread brakes, but a few cars with disc brakes slid too. I guess the decelostats weren't maintained properly, but knowing who'd be in charge of that at the time, I'm not surprised.

Dreamer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ah yes the train master aka "Shovie the wonder
> clown" according to a certain BNSF employee who
> worked at the same RR to the big ditch. Ask that
> TM about playing bumper cars on I-40 in a company
> truck in a snow storm or the company viehicle
> stripped in LA. The then DS sent him back in AMTK
> coach.
>
> Dreamer
>
> Posted from Android

I've heard about the car being stripped in LA. Don't think I've heard about an accident on I40. He did manage to miss the tornado that went through by hauling ass on I40. According to one of the other occupants of the vehicle, they missed it by two minutes as referenced by the National Weather Service. Your contact wouldn't happen to have been up in Montana until recently, was he?

SLOCONDR Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Are you sure you are not AKA "ValvePilot"?

Not I. How come?

It was a Sunday and the snow was coming down. I was helping put 18 into the shop. The TM headed out on I _40 and a semi used the company viehicle to hit a car being towed by a RV twice before everything stopped. The Road Master went out and got him. Apex is now named after him. As far as I know the BNSF employee still works in Winslow but he is on the dark side. AKA management.

Posted from Android

< I can only imagine the look on that poor woman's face after she pulled the conductor's valve, though!

my thought is she had no clue what she did ... i would think the PV owner would be the one to litigate since he has the contract with the railroad and she falls under the jusriction of the PV owner ... i would think in a court of law it's the PV owner's responsibilty to control the people on his car and make sure they know what and what not to do ... 

< "Shovie the wonder clown"

HA !!! ... thanks for the laugh ...

< As I recall, there was only one car on the train that had body mounted brakes, and that was the only one I expected to have flat spots by nature. A couple < were cars with truck mounted cylinder and tread brakes, but a few cars with disc brakes slid too. I guess the decelostats weren't maintained properly, but < knowing who'd be in charge of that at the time, I'm not surprised. 

why wouldn't the PV cars wheels go flat before the rest of the train ??? ...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/28/16 11:18 by Out_Of_Service.

As for the decelostats, many private car owners (myself included) use Pneumatic Decelostats.  IT is my understnding that Amtrak's passenger cars and some private car owners have electronic ones which require HEP to be on in order to function (That's how it wa explained to me, not 100% sure how accurate that is, but assume so).  Many flat spots saved moving in freight by using the older pneumatic kind.
James

The DS who sent the TM back on AMTK also gave Santa a stocking of coal to give to the TM on the first year of the polar express. Apparently Santa handed him the bag and the TM was surprised at receiving a gift. I believe he looked inside as Santa left. The office blew up in activity until the DS said he put Santa up to it. I do not know if the coal was kept or not.

Posted from Android

The Coconino had electric destelistates while I was there. The electricians checked them on the cars monthly shop date.

Posted from Android