Railroaders' Nostalgia > Running Long Hood Forward, Visibility

Wonder if there are any rules concearning visability when running long hood forward. GE locomotives in particular have been having ever more limited rear visability, and starting with the Gevo's there is zero rearward visability looking out the rear windows. Your only bet is with a mirror and that only works so well. So what do the rules say about running these modern units that way. Also throw in the scenerio where you are switching a car out near a public crossing and your conductor is at the switch and your having to back over the crossing with only a mirror to see back. For these situations, lets consider them to be working in territory with authority such as TWC, ABS or CTC.Could not find any rules directly addressing the situation in GCOR, TY&E, or Air Brake and Train Handling. Of course in Yard or Restricted Limits, the old restricted speed rule applies, so I'm not looking to rehash that.

Ted Curphey
Ontario, OR

"Zero visibility out the rear windows"?? E units, F units, F-40s, F-59s, P32s, P-40s, P-42s F don't even have rear windows, and look how long some of these have been around.

I believe there are union agreement rules on this but there is no GCOR or Fra rule that i know of that says running backward is any different than forward. If you hit somebody at a crossing going backward that obviously is their problem not yours. Hitting a car should be the least of your worries what about switches, derails, and signals.

The only restrictions on running backwards are for locomotives whose horns do not meet the decimal requirements in reverse and locomotives without pilots on the rear like a lot of E's, F's and other early passenger diesels.

Jeff

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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/12/16 06:05 by CDTX.

Eastern roads such as the NYC, PRR and B&O had all their early road-switchers set up for long hood
forward operation.

funnelfan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wonder if there are any rules concearning
> visability when running long hood forward. GE
> locomotives in particular have been having ever
> more limited rear visability, and starting with
> the Gevo's there is zero rearward visability
> looking out the rear windows. Your only bet is
> with a mirror and that only works so well. So what
> do the rules say about running these modern units
> that way. Also throw in the scenerio where you are
> switching a car out near a public crossing and
> your conductor is at the switch and your having to
> back over the crossing with only a mirror to see
> back. For these situations, lets consider them to
> be working in territory with authority such as
> TWC, ABS or CTC.Could not find any rules directly
> addressing the situation in GCOR, TY&E, or Air
> Brake and Train Handling. Of course in Yard or
> Restricted Limits, the old restricted speed rule
> applies, so I'm not looking to rehash that.

I recall that when the first dash 9s showed up on property it wasn't long before BNSF issued a max 45 mph speed restriction when running long hood forward just because of limited visability (those blasted radiators wings). It was listed under System Special Instructions.  It may have been moved or "lifted".  Now, the restriction of 20 mph when crossing over road crossings is in order if the locomotive does not have ditch lights. And so far, NO big BNSF units have ditch lights on the long end.
To answer your other question:  you should NOT back up over an unprotected road crossing without crossing protection. If no lights or crossing gates you insist the conductor, brakeman, switch foreman or helper to stop and protect. Even then you should use your bell and horn to indicate that you are there to any car or pedestrian cross traffic. If you don't, the TM has gotcha!

The SP had a 35 MPH speed restriction when running a car body unit backwards when I hired out in 1966.
Another restriction when running from "other than the lead unit in the direction of travel."
G

I remember in the 50's and 60s', the Southern ran LHF.  I believe they ordered them to run that way, then had some with dual controls so it could be run either direction with the engineer on the right facing forward.  

I saw a picture of a B&O that was pulled by a BL2.  They had better visibility than the F units that also ran that route.  The photo was in Frankfort, Ky. and the train was the George Washington, from Louisville, Ky to DC.  I hope they didn't run it that way all the way.

John
 

When I worked for the SLRG in Alamosa, CO we used SD90MAC43's singly in passenger service which meant they usually went long hood forward in one direction - over a mountain railroad. 

The issue was not visibility when running long hood forward, it was the desktop control stand that is not set up to be used in any direction but facing forward (short hood forward).  If you turned the seat so that you faced the center of the cab, the independent brake valve was behind the the seat back, making it impossible to bail the independent off after an automatic set.  If you turned the seat to face the window, the throttle was behind the seat back.  The seat was too far from the window to simply lean out look back, and reach the controls.

They are designed to sit facing short hood forward.  If you need to look back, use the mirrors.

I saw a lot of La Vet Pass through a little rear view mirror.....

 

I have run long hood forward with a GP-7 and reverse with two steam locomotives. It is not a comfortable situation with the controls set up for short hood running but it can be done. I remember growing up in Illinois I would see Wabash and N&W Geeps running long hood forward.I believe their control stands were set up for that operation.

Bob Krieger
Cheyenne, WY

In March 2007 I took advantage of BNSF Watson yards leisure management and took this single NS C boat lite from Watson yard to Hobart yard in Los Angeles to pick up some empty flats to bring back to the ports pausing for a photo at the now closed exUP Hobart tower, the unit had dual controls and I purposefully ran it long hood first to LA so I could have it cab first on the return with a train.
​JB

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Aw, the less that you see from the cab, the less that you'll be scared.

EO

We had a union agreement that you could not leave a terminal with lone hood forward they found out that breathing diesel fumes are a health hazard

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Gary Wamhoff
Laramie, WY

The NS 9035 shown in your picture is not a dual control "C boat" as stated but rather a crew cab wide body like all the rest of the NS 8900's and up.  You may have chosen to run backwards lite to be short hood lead loaded for the return trip.   Still a good shot.   Duane

      Howdo you get ' zero visibility ' out the rear window with the radiator flare at the top ?